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I'm sure opinions will vary, but am wondering if there's any consensus developing as to whether doing so enhances or detracts from usability.
>>That precisely is the appeal of pale grey. It disappears from your view when not needed.
It blends into the background. If I don't want to scroll I don't even know it's there. It's unobtrusive<<
S/He put it so well, and i never thought of things like that before. Browser tools, especially ones integral and on almsot 100% of sites, should not detract from the content. Hell, a colored scroll bar, actually INVITES you to scroll down without reading the imp message, presumably at the top.
Its the same reaosning that causes some sites to open a link in a new sindow sans all toolbars, and scrollers. They want you to concentrate on the message, not the periphery.
Coloured scroll bars are a bit like leaving bright spotlights one the side staircase, when the main feature in the cinema begins. Soft lights, in the case of fire, are useful, and when it's TIME to leave or to get yr popcorn at interval, sure.. put the spotlights on the staircase.
Coloured scroll bars are a bit like leaving bright spotlights one the side staircase.
That did it! I am now removing scrollbar colors on the only three sites I've ever put them on. You guys/gals are brutal. ;)
<added>All done...</added>
body {
scrollbar-base-color : #369;
}
This would not make a noticeable difference to load time. Artistic preferences or usability concerns will be the major factors to consider.
I have seem many with very garish colors and they seem to look even worse with IE6 on XP! :o
I agree with pageone - what is the point of coloring the scroll bar!
Actually, I didn't have any problems with tastefully done colored scrollbars. I was using certain flavors and they looked fine with the design. After this topic started and I saw all the responses from those that I respect their opinions, I got rid of them for now.
I didn't realize just how many people find them distasteful. Just like any other design technique, it all depends on audience. Unfortunately the audience for the sites where I did color the scrollbars is too broad to inflict that type of pain on!
I'm interested in seeing if Go60Guy sees an increase in conversion because of his changes.
P.S. After I made the changes, I sent an email to the client with a link to this thread as justification for removal. I do that quite a bit to help clients understand why I do certain things.
I actually thought my colored scrollbars gave balance to the right-hand side of the page, since my design is to include a left-hand nav bar on most pages. Then I became serious about validation. I hated to let go of them, but since they are not standards compliant, I finally did. I even saved a copy of the old stylesheet just in case I changed my mind, but eventually deleted it too.
Now, after the reality call of web standards, I view them as amateurish, something a kid would do, but I don't feel they are an invasion of the users personal space, as some here have eluded to. I feel it's more important to follow standard compliant code. I'm really, really tired of the browser propriety war that has ensued the last 15 years and anything I can do to further move towards standards, I will.
link colors are supposed to be blue for not visited and purple for visited
maybe a bit off topic here, but is this really true anymore? there are so many sites on the web now that don't follow this convention that i think most web users are now used to finding links by other criteria than "if its blue its a link"
Hey look how smart I am, I can color your scrollbar
Feels like a pink poodle marking his territory on my apple tree... (Where is my shotgun?)
What's next - changing the browser toolbars' appearance as well? Shoot the pink poodle.
It is not your website, it is my browser that these designers are messing with, and I do not want other people messing with my browser.
May be good for a Flock of Seagulls fan site . . . .
What is the problem with you guys?
This are very cheap arguments for not to have them.
The only good argument I have hear is:
Will not pass W3C CSS validation.
I have this on all my sites, for 3 years know and nobody has ever complained about it.
90% of my visitors are webmasters, what are not the easiest guests to have.
Believe me they complain if there are things that they don’t like.
Usually if a website tries to hijack my browser and has ANYTHING that messes with MY user interface without MY permission or tells me what I should do with MY programs and preferences (scrolling javascript text in status bar, pop ups, a "best viewed with browser X and resolution Y" notice, sometimes even links opening up in a new window without warning me first) make me scream and press the back button.
However, even though colored scrollbars mess with MY user interface, they don't make me scream, as long as there is a scrollbar and it's even remotely visible. I see colored scrollbars more as an extension to the page's look and layout, not as an attempt at hijacking my browser, because the scrollbar is still usable, no matter what it's colored. In some way colored scrollbars do look nice. I usually don't browse the web with IE, and sometimes I even hope that my Linux browsers supported colored scrollbars.
Although colored scrollbars look nice, I would NEVER expect seeing them on a professional website. Somehow they give an amateurish look to the site, like "Hi I'm 12 yrs old and I'm über kewl, look I even know the 1337 code to color scrollbars aren't they kewl!" I'm not sure if I'd like to do business with someone who has colored scrollbars on their site, unless they're artists or designers.
The biggest reason I dislike colored scrollbars is that they're non-standard and IE specific. We've all seen how non-standard codes and tags have lead to browser wars and all the "best viewed with" messages out there. I don't want anyone to encourage this anymore. Without standards the web wouldn't be usable at all.
If there was a way to support colored scrollbars in ALL browsers, and if the browsers had an option for disabling them, they wouldn't be that bad. Then the user would be able to decide if s/he wants colored scrollbars or not.
what i think is more important though is if you have got someone using ie and they are using the windows accessibility option, and you start messing with their setting you are saying "i don't care about you and your colour-blindess / visual impairment - i don't want your business". not good business practice.
That said, even on the non-commercial sites I'm following the route of pageoneresults and go60guy. Off they go.
Chris
1 : conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature
2 : of, relating to, or characteristic of a sophomore <a sophomoric prank>
Had to look that one up!
My objection is that the CSS scroll bar makes the browser window unbalanced, like a picture that has lost its right hand frame edge.
I've never run across a colored scrollbar, but I'd be inclined to oppose them because they sound distracting and possibly confusing.
Its interesting that you have never run across coloured scroll bars and just shows how different peoples surfing habits really differ.
I think that the use of colour scrollbars depends entirely on the site design - sometimes they really are complimentary to the site design and look great.
If you want examples sticky mail me.
Of course there are two sides to every coin, I agree that the fact scrollbars are not an offically recognised standard makes a strong reason not to use them.
And there are a lot of sites out there that is does look almost tacky on.
I am not converted from this discussion just yet! some of my sites have it and some dont - its entirely design driven / dependant.
Personally, I've never found them distracting. However, I agree entirely that on commercial sites you don't want to introduce anything that can possibly interfere with ultimate entry of a credit card number in the order form and that magic click on the "Finish" button.
Yeah, standards compliance is a worthy goal, but if they get in the way of the magic click, then out they go too. In this case, it seems they should stay.
With regard to horseing around with your browser, does that extend to such things as fixed font sizes too? Ie. 100% hands off?
One last thing about the scrollbar. On the sites where I took it down, I'm using a centered, fixed width design so that the scrollbar sits apart from the page in 1024 X 768.
On the non-commercial sites where I'm retaining it, I use a liquid design so that the colored scrollbar blends right in with the page-wide color scheme in 1024 X 768. I'm sticking with it there. And, that's that!
I whole heartedly 100% agree.
Chris
I hate fixed font sizes. They're usually small for my browser at 1280 x 1024, even though I have a 20" monitor. (Although sometimes I encounter fixed fonts that are too large, and those are annoying, too!)
I'd call that distraction. The device calls attention to ITSELF rather than enhancing the delivery of the website's message. Unless I am selling visual design itself, that's not the effect I'm looking for.
I want design elements that SUPPORT content delivery, not compete with it or call attention to the designer's cleverness. My aim is to create pages where the visitor's attention continues to be drawn further into the content, over and over again.
So, under my principle of "slick ain't sticky" I've never customized the scrollbar.
With regard to horseing around with your browser, does that extend to such things as fixed font sizes too? Ie. 100% hands off?
Well, sort of. I don't mind if you want to change sizes as a presentation effect to make headers stick out and such. But if you want me to read a paragraph or two, it's probably best to stick to 1em or 100%. That's a comfortable reading size for me, on my browser. It's not a comfortable reading size for my wife, but if she reads it on her screen it is.
My wife's absolute aversion to my screen is one of the things that convinces me that 1em is the way to go. I think most web designers/developers/etc that I've spoken with tend to like slightly to significantly smaller text sizes than the rest of the population. I know I do. But if I set the font size to something fixed that I thought was readable, my wife would probably take one look at the site and then go find one with text she could read on it. On the other hand, if I made the text look big enough to make her happy, I'd think that the page looked unpleasant and fluffy. Relative font sizes deal with this quite nicely.
(including myself in the scenario)
Finally, I changed my mind. Colored scrollbars are OK as long they match the color of the trailing balls.
Indeed. Holistic design consistency is incredibly important.
Not matching the scrollbars to your blinking .gifs is just downright tacky.
