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Best HTML Practices for SEO

         

andrewsmd

8:56 pm on Nov 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have a client who is complaining because his site does not show up in results when searched for on bing by certain keywords. He owns a clinic and lets say the name of his clinic is "Smith Clinic" and it is located in kearney nebraska. Now when I search bing for kearney nebraska smith clinic it does not come up in bing. It does in Google, of course, just not in bing. I'm just curious if anyone has any ideas on what I can do to help this. Just general "point in the right direction" for best practices on this is all I need. I really just need to make some changes so I can say hey, I did this and it's the standard in the industry, take it up with bing. Thanks,

swa66

9:16 pm on Nov 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Is bing indexing the site at all ?
If it's not crawled: search for how to submit it.

londrum

9:30 pm on Nov 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



well if the site is the one that i think it is... where do i start?

the page title is two words long and doesn't mention 'smith clinic' or 'nebraska'. the description tag is two words long, neither of which is 'smith' or 'nebraska'. the page doesn't even have an <h1> tag on it.

the first mention of the word 'kearney' is halfway down the page. other than the keyword stuffing -- which just gets ignored by the search engines -- you mention 'kearney' the grand total of 2 times in the whole document. the word 'smith' isn't mentioned once. neither is the word 'nebraska'.
you've put all the important words in the images instead, which is a waste of time for SEO.

you can't expect to rank on a phrase if you don't use it on the page.
i'm guessing that the only reason it appears on google is because you've submitted it as a business.

whatever he's paying you for SEO, it's too much.

jinxed

9:50 pm on Nov 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You would say having a keyword in an image ALT tag is a waste of time?

andrewsmd

9:55 pm on Nov 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It's not smith clinic I just used that as an example that's funny that it brought up a clinic. I do have <h1> tags and titles and I have no control over the content they wanted in their site. I have already told them that adding those words throughout their content will increase their searchability. I just needed some reassurance that the things I was doing were correct. There's no need to get nasty. I agree the with the alt tag not being a waste of time. BTW I wasn't charging for this time, I just was curious.

rocknbil

7:01 pm on Nov 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yeah Andrew, I feel your pain . . . whenever the topic turns to "being found" or SEO with a client, I pound one nail in their (sometimes thick) heads:

Content, content, content. You need textual content to do that..

The response I often get is "I don't want all that text on there, no one's going to read that. Put a piture on there" (typo intended.)

The problem then, really is that clients, especially old-school ones who have learned everything they know about advertising in relation to traditional media, have an idea that it's all about presentation. Designers respond to this in kind, creating cool looking web sites with little or no indexability.

The client loves it. The designer loves the check. Then 6 months later, here you are.

To form a strong long term relationship with clients you have to acquire the skill to break this news to them and somehow make them believe it; an effective web page requires text, lots of it, like it or not. Will you let me help you do that or not?

I too am curious about the alt attribute, these are intended for accessibility but since S.E.'s don't read images, they use them. Do they not? All ears here. :-) --> C C

in reference to bing/msn: I've noticed with new sites, it does take them longer to show up, but they appear to be responsive to submissions. I once had one straggle along for 6 months while it was indexed well in other S.E.'s. There **used to be** a link to something like "site not here? contact us." or something like that, and they actually responded.

My guess is their database indexes slower, or their bots crawl slower, or something. "We're Microsoft, we do what we want, when we want." :-)

andrewsmd

8:34 pm on Nov 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Agreed. I love when I ask questions on here and someone who has no idea of the situation rags on everything from my coding style, to the lack of this or that. In a perfect world with an endless budget, the content would be better and easily searchable. Thanks,

andrewsmd

4:25 pm on Nov 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Alright new question. So this client is adamant about getting his page higher up on the list when a user searches for
town state name clinic (that should provide no confusion on a site that I'm referring to). I have talked with him and he is finally willing to change some of his content. Mainly just adding the <h1> tags to have his clinic name in there. I did have a thought though and I want some input on it. His background is white. What if I set some text to color white, make it small, and repeat it in blank spaces a bunch of times. I.e. town state name clinic town state name clinic and just do that over and over. Do you think that would help any? Thanks,

tedster

4:48 pm on Nov 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That breaks two search engine guidelines - hidden text and keyword stuffing. Most likely it will get the site penalized. Just use the name and location text naturally in the content and in some backlinks.

andrewsmd

5:08 pm on Nov 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That is kind of what I figured. I'm just curious if making the text the same color as the background would work because it's not technically hidden. If I had to guess I bet google catches that and Microsoft doesnt :).

swa66

5:13 pm on Nov 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Google does crawl stylesheets every so often, never seen the MSFT bot do that.

rocknbil

7:13 pm on Nov 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



What if I set some text to color white, make it small, and repeat it in blank spaces a bunch of times

No, no, no, no. This is one of the top "stupid web tricks." :-)

Mainly just adding the <h1> tags to have his clinic name in there.

Good start. If he is not willing to move on any "visible" changes, in case you haven't already, add the following.

Nurse that title tag. Don't waste space on it with the company name, but in the case of **only** the home page, I'm on the fence about this argument. So my compromise, put it at the far right

Widget Services City State related keywords company name

Make these unique to every page, do not boilerplate them across all pages.

Use the meta description, use it well. At least two full sentences, don't keyword stuff, but work them in. If present and indexed, this is what comes up in the short description in SERPS, so it is used, and does need to be readable. Instead of

Untitled
home • about us • contact • blah

You will get

Widget Services City State related keywords company name
Widget services of city, state offers affordable widget services for seniors and young people . . .

The jury's out on the importance of the meta keywords element, it's mostly ignored but put 10-12 relevant keywords in anyway.

For both of these, can't say it enough, like the title element, do not boilerplate them, make sure every one is unique to the page and relevant to the content on the page.

If you can, see if you can convince them to get something small and at the bottom. Being at the bottom, it's nowhere near as beneficial as higher in the source code, but it's better than nothing.

The above is not perfect, without on-page content it will not get you to #1 but it will help.