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Forum Moderators: incrediBILL
Link to my pages - fine. Frame them on another site and I will consider it theft.
Can't imagine the 'disclaimer' that you would use. "Uh, I don't have actual content, so I'm going to rip off somebody else's by hotlinking their whole page."
The client needs be charged for the creation of original content. (Which is easily enough stolen and rewritten if actually doing the work is too much trouble.)
@incrediBILL: Did a little research. Down here in Texas it appears there are three cases of iframe or framed copyright infringement suits in the works. None have gone to court yet but perhaps that might happen...and with the same results as the i4i suit against MS ala patents regarding bits and pieces found in MS Office. We Texicans tend to shoot first and ask questions later (as I have with a few who wanted to "frame" me over the last 9 years.
OP...do the work with original content. No lazy boy route...but if your CLIENT told you to do it CYA! And, without gilding the lily too much, since you stopped long enough to ASK if okay, you already knew the answer.
This young "whipper snapper" is not lazy stupid or non creative, I have over 40 hours into this site, I have created pages of original content, written the code, the flash and even created him a new logo and identity. It was merely a question posed to you "old timers" by someone with a mind open enough to learn from those who have YEARS of experience on me.
P.s. Can someone clarify on if I can post limited amounts of quotations from wikkipedia with a source link?
We're not trying to 'gun you down' - just looking to give the best opinions that we can. Its not personal, and you seem sincere. The OP raised two separate issues from my view.
1) The phrasing raised flags that you very well may be shortcut guy looking for some 'validation'. Happens all the time here; people that just want to 'borrow a few images' or 'a little text'. Give us all a dollar for every time we've been ripped off and we'd all be retired.
2) What you want(ed) to do is, as you've seen, not selling very well. It remains, as originally described, a very bad idea that will not serve you well IMO.
That said, if you've been doing the work, gathering the raw content from your client, turning it into good website text - then you don't need to frame someone else's site. You have even better options:
1) Create a short keyword spiked intro paragraph that links to the authority site and you can use their content to your advantage and it's all white hat.
2) The right link relationships are a very good thing - so are the right content exchanges. If the two sites aren't competing (and sometimes even if they are), but fit together nicely, then they may even be receptive to custom creating a new page on their site, that you will use as a link target. Develop the right relationships and these can be win-win deals.
As Don Rickles said to Telly Savalas in "Kelly's Heroes":
Crapgame: Then make a DEAL!
Big Joe: What kind of deal?
Crapgame: A DEAL, deal! Maybe the guy's a Republican. "Business is business," right?
Don't Frame it - scrap it, and then republish it from your site and note it by the words "cache" next to it. Doesn't sound right? Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft do it all day long with the entire web.
This conundrum (or is that not quite the right descriptive) merits a name and definition(s) of parameters. The example merits an academic examination - though it clearly skips several steps (or redefines) the logic sequence that I think most people would choose to apply as a practical matter.
I will host a example of the <iframe> page in a directory with no links going to it and send the link in an email to the companies who own that information requesting a solid answer on if they would tolerate it. To me I don't see it as a horrible thing as it is a link merely for educational use for people that are trying to heal ailments, however judging from the way you guys have reacted it seems my pov is a little off key.
Normally when people iframe, it's because they want to use someone else's material on their own site. Just because your framing their site doesn't mean it's not stealing, because it is. I've been just as upset as you are because I would have LOVED to frame certain pages but without their permission it's just theft.
That said, anyone who doesn't want to be framed can put a simple javaascript function on their pages to break out of frames.
And, if it does, that makes me a tad ticked that I'll have to insert that code into (on one site) 1,700ish pages... which makes my site "java" when I don't use js for anything!
...but if that code does kill iframe use of my content elsewhere I WILL CERTAINLY install it.
Since both regular frames and inline frames are displaying the document in a child of the top window, the script works in both cases.
problems can arise if a frame is used to show pages from two web sites at the same time. The use of frames in this way can mislead the viewer of a site as to the creator of its content, possibly raising issues of copyright infringement, passing off, defamation, and trademark infringement, just like the linking situations described above
Answers the question of this thread rather definitely.
Is it bullet proof, i.e., work around(s) the site using the iframe can use to bust the framebuster.?
No, it's not 100% bulletproof - but a workaround would be extremely complex and take a level of expertise that is way beyond 99.9% of webmasters.
I used to think framebusting was bulletproof, but then for a short period of time a few years back, Yahoo Image Search was actually breaking framebuster scripts. I complained about it as did others, and the frame-breaker breaker script was removed. It was apparently created by an overly energetic engineer who pushed the script live without the knowledge of top managament.
"Yahoo Image Search is violating the copyright and integrity of this server. If you wish to view the page, CLICK HERE to continue"
The CLICK HERE link broke the frame and loaded ;)
Started to search around for anti frame busting scripts and quickly found enough results that I would take a hard look cracking a frame busting script before using one. Clearly, a lot of iframers don't think much of low level attempts to stop them.
Was also no problem to find discussion about ant anti frame busting. coderrr.wordpress.com [coderrr.wordpress.com]
stackoverflow.com also discusses this subject with what seems to be some degree of sophistication, though much of it is over my head.
What I have taken from these searches is the that busting the frame buster is not that hard - that it takes more effort to bust the bust.
< Moderator Note:
For the above link, we're going to make an exception to our
policy about links to non-authority blog posts Forum Charter [webmasterworld.com])
- but just for the purposes of this discussion alone. >
[edited by: tedster at 9:02 pm (utc) on Aug. 30, 2009]
though much of it is over my head
Clearly, a lot of iframers don't think much of low level attempts to stop them.
That is not my experience. The basic frame-breaker stops many would-be framers. An expert burglar can pick the lock on my front door, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to bother having a lock there at all.