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Forum Moderators: incrediBILL
You can't say it does not exist because it does.
joined:Aug 12, 2004
Disabling right click is kid stuff and only pisses people off. I don't need right click to get at your code. There are half a dozen other ways to do it.
You can't say it does not exist because it does
It does not exist because it simply doesn't exist.
For HTML to display in a browser I can view it no matter what.
However, you could do the site in FLASH but then the search engine can't do too much with the site either.
The only way to truly hide source code is to put it on a CD and put it in your desk drawer and never expose it to the web. ;)
You need to clarify to your boss that you can obscure the path to code access but anyone who wants it bad enough will be able to gain access.
but i've seen it.
Are you talking about
(visualize the dots as plain carriage returns)
I've seen sites where there are like, 300 lines of carriage returns at the top. Not really hiding, but close enough to fool most people.
Another method: create a frameset with a single frame, nest the pages inside the frame. This is bad for SEO, but again, it fools many people.
Another is to remove all white space from code, making it difficult to rip. Not hiding it though.
It's simple logic: a browser needs source code to render, if it reaches the browser, it can be seen.
I can, because it doesn't.
incediBILL makes a good point with Flash, though there are Flash crackers available. You can tell the boss the source is hidden completely, but it is accessible to anyone that really wants it. The Flash route has its own issues, and I don't really need the source. If I can see the page I can hand-code a pretty close copy pretty readily. I only use CMS for massive search and replace and stuff like that. Hand-coding and testing new designs/templates is sweet; external CSS for screen and print, PHP includes for various blocks that will be repeated in various areas of the site.....
The 'average' ripper for something like this is as likely after the design as the content. Don't fret on that. Ripping your text is as fast and easy as the source. Nothing that you design is worth a lot of hassle to 'protect'. Swap in new background-images, border-style: border-color:, a little of this and that, and, using your source code, I can, with minimal editing, have a site that you would not even recognize as your design.
Same point on JS. It works. You can do it, but it also pretty easily defeated.
The boss is doesn't know what he is talking about and it is your job to look him in the eye and say so. If not you, then who? It is pointless extra work that will do more harm than good.
What you may have that IS worth protecting, and is worth some extra investment are text and images. Hiding the source is a waste of time. Monitoring for copyright infringement is an entirely separate issue.
This is where we put our extra resources. We used to be 'nice' and go with heavy handed C&Ds. No more. These days - straight to heavy handed documentation of theft and DMCA with Google. Like the C&Ds, DMCAs with hosts were effective at fast action- but there tend to be no consequences. Our last rip, she (a thief) gave such a grief about our 'heavy handed tactics', that we have had some extensive discussions with our lawyer about 'making a deal' on the next infringement. A contingency based suit. We cede all monies the attorney selected is able to collect in exchange for a suit that results in the enforcement of our copyrighted images or text. The infringer can settle quick and cheaper, or slow and expensive. Won't much matter to us or the attorney. Am truly looking forward to our first case. When we get ripped, it tends to be extensive and the documentation is slam dunk.
<snip> Can't view source unless you do a [validator.w3.org...] with the show source option checked. It exist.
[edited by: engine at 2:51 pm (utc) on Aug. 10, 2009]
[edit reason] No specific sites, thanks, see WebmasterWorld TOS [/edit]
joined:Aug 12, 2004
It took me all of 2 seconds to grab it.
Can't view source unless ...
In other words: you CAN view the source code.
And there is not one unless like you already found there are thousands of ways to get to it, it's not hidden at all but to the most junior of juniors out there, and even then it'll take them minutes to beat it anyway.
So bottom line it not only does not exist, it even CANNOT exist.
It's not necessarily about "bad people" anyway. The 'open source' concept allows everyone to develop technology and applications much further and faster by not 'keeping secrets' or going 'proprietary'. There ARE differing views (and degrees of same) as to what to leave 'open' and what to 'protect'. I share some belief in both for varying reasons.
Members will tell you some tricks, but not others. Everyone draws their own line. Especially in these fora. They may help you a little, for which you will be grateful and benefit - but not help you as much as they could; holding back a few nuggets of info. A lot of that depends on the specific forum.
You can't hide your source, but the more skills you have, the more advantage you have. Do you use includes for logo, header, navigation, footer, contact information..... The rendered code will show up in the source as just more lines of HTML - but what is not seen is the thirty seconds that it takes to put a new logo on 200 pages. Learning how to do that takes more work, and viewing your source gives up a lot less 'secrets' than you think. Like a shopping cart. No problem to rip the code for on-page presentation. It takes actual work to learn how to configure carts to do what you want and make it work.
Don't worry about anybody else. Just do the work. Build. Improve. Upgrade. Streamline behind the scenes. It should never end.
All clientside code is sent to the client period. You'll have an easier time making rocks bleed then hiding code clientside code.
The fact that you can view any and all clientside code but no serverside code is a fundamental part of understanding the roles of each of the languages. Don't let it get you down though...however you will want to make sure your boss understands that there is no realistic way to achieve this goal and no amount of time and/or money will come close to achieving that. At best all you can do is reserve your "feature" for premium members thereby restricting access...though those people can still get the code if they want.
I've had a lot of people tell me not to bother doing this or that and I've proven all those people wrong in the past...but this is a goal you're just not going to achieve.
[edited by: tedster at 2:16 am (utc) on Aug. 17, 2009]
The most striking thing is that those who are most eager to hide their code, content or images are those with the least likely to have it stolen.
... those who are most eager to hide their code, content or images are those with the least likely to have it stolen...
This is very true. Of all the sites that I have come across using those silly hacks and scripts, there is not one that I would want to "steal" any code from.
You can't say it does not exist because it does.
Are you talking about not being able to right-click on a site?
If so, this is easily circumvented by going to "view source" from the toolbar of the browser you're using. Not to mention any of the MANY other methods (that have been mentioned) -- browser tools, site downloaders, etc.
Truly, the only way to hide it is to not upload it.
just use Flash,