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we use a few different methods to open new windows to display dynamically generated PDF's... target="_blank" and window.open
and got a message from a user that stated he refuses to "cripple" his computer to allow popups from our site...
what in the hell has this world come to... "oh my god.. popups.... shut down, shut down..." chill teh f*** out... its not the end of the world...
im tired of all these technophoic users who think that every little piece of the web that they dont understand is a monster....
you pop up haters need to get back..
I read a few of the earlier posts but became overwhelmed by the number actually posted.
Firstly, straight up, I use Google Toolbar with the "Pop-Up Blocker".
It's simply amazing the amount of "sexual excitement" I'm missing out on. I'm sure I could be really, really "super big". Even at 66. Gee what's my wife missing out on?
Moving on and down to actual feedback from members of my very own web site forums. Pop-Ups aren't apparently really such a big deal, cookies are.
I used to have to explain that I couldn't navigate "X" number of sites each and every day, including WebmasterWorld without cookies enabled.
Pop-Ups OTOH have been a minor irritation to my site contributors. And I don't and, have never used Pop-Ups in any way, on any of my sites!
On balance, I've formed the overall opinion that a great many people, especially newcomers, being security conscience [and rightly so] view pop-ups, cookies etc., even javascript, as the very tools of the devil.
Those among us, as some early posters seem to have confirmed, some of us as webmasters seem to have the attitude, that these people [our visitors] are retards.
Now if we actually believe that, then we as Webmasters have lost the plot! A truism, if you don't begin to understand and / or respond to your audience:
Get out of the way!
Many, including myself, are totally frustrated with all the new gee-whizz gizmos. It's now a hazard navigating the internet compared to say 10 years ago.
Why 10 years ago I went to site XYZ that was then a "bloated" 20 kB HTML file, now today we're talking mB's including stupid Flash files. Why? Why?
I've always searched the internet for information. Why do informational sites bloat themselves with total irrelevent BS?
Oh! For total shock value!
I could post a link here [except for TOS] from a friend's most informative site from 15 years ago, I think it was something like a 5 Kb .txt file. Gave you "every" piece of information you ever needed. No Pop-Ups, no Flash!No HTML! Nuffink! Just information.
I could immediately post links to some important Australian product sites which even on ADSL take a while to load.
Why? Because some 20 - 25 year old idiot thinks he / she knows better?
Ask yourself a question:
Does it offer added value? Forget the total BS expression "user experience".
There are many valid reasons for pop-ups, even cookies BUT you need to consider your target audience.
Considering your target audience as dumb, stupid, illiterate, ill-informed etc. etc. merely confirms you have a similar retarded attitude.
Just my opinion.
So when someone visits your website the browser will display a "warning message". A warning message usually indicates a danger. So it is not that absurd when not too tech savvy visitors will consider your website to be "dangerous".
There are two possible ways out of this:
1. You can either find another way to display the file without using code that triggers a popup warning.
2. Or you can decorate your website with additional messages for the not tech savyy user, telling them that the popup message not really is a danger, and how they can deactivate the popup blocker in firefox, internet explorer, safari, google toolbar, yahoo toolbar or whatever software they are using or add your site to the list of exceptions.
After considering the options for my own website for some time (for about a millionth of a second or so) I choose the first option.
and got a message from a user that stated he refuses to "cripple" his computer to allow popups from our site...
You're ranting about a user who believes that it should be his choice whether or not a web browser opens a new window? Incredible. Time to get over your control-freakery and learn how to work with as many web browser setups as possible, methinks.
new windows to display dynamically generated PDF's
When the click is received send this header:
Content-disposition: attachment,filename=whatever.pdfThat will trigger the download / save dialogue.
PDF files are not for on-screen use in any case - they are to download and send to a printer.
If you only offer your content in PDF format you will be making it in accessible to everyone who doesn't have a PDF reader.
PDF files are not for on-screen use in any case - they are to download and send to a printer.
Not sure I'd agree there. It's nice to be able to view them first in the browser, or PDF program.
I like the way some browsers open them within the same window. But I don't mind downloading them first. Especially now I use the ultra-fast Foxit free PDF reader. No more bloated Adobe software that takes ages to load (complete with a splash screen) to view them for me. People don't realise there are alternatives! And on a Mac you can use the built-in Preview app.
Hate to say this, but putting a PDF file in an unexpected popup is simply a bad, bad idea. Put the information in a plain HTML popup, with a link next to it saying something like "View as PDF."
I personally despise web pages that are PDF for the reasons your visitor stated, as it simply "stops" web browsing until Adobe Reader is loaded.
"Surprise PDF Web Pages", in my opinion, simply suck and are terribly user un-friendly.
why is it people are so freaked out by pop ups...we use a few different methods to open new windows to display dynamically generated PDF's... target="_blank" and window.open
You may think for a legitimate site, active content should be enabled? Why? If I am after a search I get lots of results. If I cannot see the first site I go to the next. Site owners need to reconsider and always use a noscript tag along with all their flash and jscripts so those who block pretty much everything can still see the site as search engines do.
As of the other comment for having both the jscript and regular link with the same line the problem is that the link may not work. Depends how the browser or firewall or script blocker settings are configured and process the html tags. Using the <noscript> tag is better.
Eg:
<script>
Flash
</script>
<noscript>
Static Picture
</noscript>
As of the PDF, I also think when with the proper headers sent from the server end, the browser will prompt the user whether to download the PDF, or open the pdf (and cancel it of course) assuming the plugin is allowed.
But to lump everything that pops up into that category is to fail to understand how effective a popup can be in improving the viewers experience when they are used appropriately.
Many of my client sites are holiday resorts and apartment blocks (condos if you prefer). A photo gallery works great as a popup that toggles through all the photos and its those photos more than anything else that sell the rooms.
There are lots of valid situations where a pop-up is the best approach. After all, they are just another page... a small one.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with popups used as an integrated part of the site.
If you can open the pop-up: sure go ahead, when it fails, detect it in your script and just load it in the window itself, users that block pop-ups and/or javascript will be experienced enough to use the back button.
To do that part of it might be in changing things like
<a href="popup-page.html" onclick="popUpFunction('popup-page.html');return false;">link</a>to have the script detect it's success and set the return value accordingly.
basically:
<a href="popup-page.html" onclick="return popUpFunction('popup-page.html')">link</a>
it is upon submission of a form.
they enter critera into a search form, which dynamically generates a form in a new window....
The largest opposition to pop ups is unexpected behavior. A new window on submission of a form is not really an expected behavior. Why is a pop up window needed here? Does it help or enhance the user experience in any way? If it doesn't, you have the answer to their frustration.
Second, as mentioned, "new windows" get lumped with the dreaded "pop ups" as the same thing. Pop up blockers are designed to stop automated forced-feeding of new windows; windows initiated by user actions are a different animal. In the same way "spam" can be applied to a wide range of un-spam email (opted-in mail that is "just not interesting to me") user-initiated pop ups are a different application than the "real" pop ups blocked by pop up blockers.
tonyoriega, in your situation - my impression of this would be their complaint is valuable input, set aside their ranting and extrapolate the valuable feedback. Maybe this process should return a plain HTML page with a link to the PDF - so they know what to expect.
When you get a complaint, there are probably 100 other users who don't complain, they just walk away.
1) Keep them on my site.
2) As an ecom with ALOT of info (much unique) people use us as a comparison site before purchase. It helps them compare notes on competing products directly.
On a very slight tangent, there are many instances where my web-user persona will right-click, open-new-window. These are the places my webmaster persona launches new windows/tabs.
Several 100,000 uniques a month, no complaints. But then, clicking the links are a long way from essential, and I guess a very small proportion of users actually do click them.
I will look into an alternate method... maybe.
One simple compromise would be to take the user to a "success" page after form submittal with a big, obvious link along the lines of "Thank you - View The Report Now." Even if clicking that link opened a new window or tab, it shouldn't trip most popup blockers nor would it upset most users.
and nice big PDF icon and some verbiage that says "your pdf will open in a new window"
Back to the main point..
You can't expect users to alter their system/browser setup to use your site. You need to build your site with the masses in mind.
Even if your site is legitimate, many arent. By allowign popups in general, your users will be exposed to all manner of bad stuff. Sadly the advertisers have totaly wrecked the purpose of the popup.
Mack.
yes, the masses are in mind, and i think he is not part of that...again, over 2 years, he is the only one to say anything about our method of new windows.
of course customers are first, but there is 1 person in any industry that you just look at and say..."is this person serious?"
And definitely, I also use other annoying websites where I have to add it in the list of allowed sites and that's so simple.
So, Tony, the client is nuts, you're right, it shouldn't be that annoying for the kind of service/website/general situation you are describing. I mean, it is not a popup in the front page of an information website!
and he says he is going to go elsewhere...
uhhhhh unless you search all of the providers in our city one by one, you arent going to find any other place to find medical providers covered in our plans under a PPO....
(can you guess my industry)
One of my bank, in order for me to use his online service, asked me to use exclusively IE, and gave me a list of changes I had to do in the settings. Some of them included to download unsigned ActiveX :(....... yes A BANK!
Oh, well and I had to add it to the trusted sites...
and..... and.... well, you get the idea.
Did I change the bank? Nope.
I am constantly watching the status bar for .pdf extensions as there's nothing worse than being forced to open a PDF in a browser. PDF's and browsers should stay apart like water and oil...or "crowbar separation" as Eddie Izzard would say. :-)
but that's just my opinion. To be honest, the "crime" you describe is about 1.5 on the Web Crime Richter Scale and customers normally throw in the "I'll leave!" as a pathetic attempt for you to turn your site upside down for them.
They licensed a web app for several thousand users, and that site used pop ups to let users know their sessions were about to expire. IT refused to make an exception, the vendor didn't fix it either, and lots of users lost their data and screamed blue murder. And yes, the company switched vendors the next year.
it really does serve a good function, and can play an important role for some sites...(hint hint)
for example, why create a new page for 12 words of content when you can have a cute fun little pop up...
maybe we can work on a new term or phrase for pop ups that will differentiate themselves from the old persona that they have been attached to..?
info up
baby window
child window
mini window
As mentioned above, informing and offering choice is a start; browsers could help; Chrome just shows a tab at the foot of the page, so the user can clickit to see it in full.
So long as you think about visitor needs before convenience, all things are 'sortable'
IT refused to make an exception, the vendor didn't fix it either
There's always an idiot - and they deserve what they get; I wonder if they learned from their experience ;)
For the most of it, they are an insidious nuisance, and my distaste for them stems from the days when every other popup was #*$! related.
We don't design popups into client sites. If they want a rewrite, they'll take it somewhere else.
Popups are bad enough, and when it's a popup for a .pdf? Well then, that's even worse. Fatware Adobe ... just what a mate needs to further slow his/her surfing experience.
News sites are even bad these days. I've learned over time to keep cursered to the side when opening many of the news sites that exist today, for fear that my mouseover will open something that won't be closed easily.
People are smart ... if you have a well marked link, bold text or image, if it's deemed important enough, well then, they'll click on it. And if it's a .pdf file? You would do very well to indicate it with something that says "PDF".
If you have a site and you want me to see something, well then it might be best to put it right out there, on the page, w/out popup ... I'll take a banner or a very large button over a popup any day of the week.
But of course ... you'll write your business and it's pages how you feel you should, and this is good ... for you.
And I'll leave my popup blocker on, and that's good for me.
We both win.
Note;
If you must code in popups, cookie them down so your regular customers don't have to look at them every time they visit. Give them the option to turn them off.
Was not happy camper I can tell you. It appears the number of pop ups and other things java(script) are worse than before. Fortunately I have a good antivirus installed that warned when Really Bad Things might occur.
Back to blocking everything. Whew!
Not a fan of flash sites, so don't spend much effort there... just skip on to the next site. Don't bother to let 'em know. Vote with the feet, silence is golden, and why give 'em a clue anyway?
I don't use pop ups on my site, but I do offer PDF---with a clear indication that file IS a PDF. No bad reports, plenty of thank you's. Merely an observation. YMMV.
Fewer worthwhile sites are using popups, so it doesn't surprise me to see bugs regarding it.
