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Viewing Sites in Old Versions of Explorer

     
1:35 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I have two web sites I have recently constructed where the navigation is CSS based. When I view and test the site it looks perfect in both Explorer (7.0) and Firefox (2.0 & 3.0) but when the client goes to look at it with Explorer 6.0 it is all screwed up. I can't see what they are seeing because I don't have Explorer 6.0 running on any of my computers any longer.

I don't think you can even run older versions of Explorer on computers that have the newer browser because it is integrated into Windows. Does anyone know of some way I can get an older version of Explorer special viewer or something? I really need to see what they are seeing and be able to test any corrections and I don't want to remove a newer version of IE to put on an older version, assuming that is even possible.

Secondary question is why is this messed up in IE 6.0 and fine everywhere else. However another factor is that I had these sites set up on my personal server as I was building them which runs Linux and PHP 4.0 Both clients said the sites were fine then, but when I moved them to their own server then this problem starting occurring. However I can't find any differences between the two hosting accounts. Mine and the new ones both run Linux and both run PHP 4.0. I am at a loss on this.

2:41 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

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IE 6 standalone site:webmasterworld.com [google.com] (G search) I think you can.

why is this messed up in IE 6.0 and fine everywhere else

<resists urge to pound MS again. . . > Topic of great discussion, a lot of broken stuff in IE 6, especially in how it renders CSS driven layouts . . . I'm sure SuzyUK has a thread and/or list somewhere that details each one.

8:47 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

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i have seen problems mostly with the way ie6 handles padding and/or borders.
so far i have been able to make ie6 usable but there is still some ugliness where divs bleed over a border and push other objects around.
9:37 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Do you have a valid DOCTYPE declaration so that it avoids rendering in quirks mode?

As for the rest.... it's almost certain that it's not a server-side issue unless you forgot to transfer a file or there's some issue with an absolute path.

9:12 pm on Oct 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

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in the "old time" we had "browserola"
but I do not know if it was updated?
does anyone know about it?

[edited by: tedster at 2:30 am (utc) on Oct. 20, 2008]

2:00 am on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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At some point (sooner rather than later) IE6 will disappear. If your client is still running IE6 ask "why?". While the upgrade (general) over the web surfers is not complete, it does lean toward IE7 and not IE6. There comes a point of diminishing returns to keep coding for the badly implemented browser(s).
4:14 am on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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If your client is still running IE6 ask "why?".

it isn't the client that matters in this case, it's the visitors.

i just checked a number of sites we are responsible for, all of which see 100 or more visitors per day.
a company web site had the lowest percentage of visitors using IE6 and that was about 1 visitor out of 8.
the IE6 utilization ranged up to 3 of 8 visitors on a developer network-type site for a global technology corporation.
as far as i'm concerned, even 12.5% is too big to ignore...

5:27 am on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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even 12.5% is too big to ignore...

Then go for it. I don't. Done with fiddling with IE6. Life is too short and there's too much work to be done. 100 visitors a day is pretty small in the general scheme of things. My point of diminishing returns will certainly be different than others. :)

6:29 am on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Second thought, and should have been said up front...

If the client is running IE6 (and I thought I said that) Why? The rest of the world is migrating to IE7. Why is the client running legacy as opposed to reality? As a developer one should suggest the tech edge, not the bleeding edge, of where the product appears. And find a way to make that market TO THE CLIENT so that one does not have to keep on keeping on with IE6. Sorry for two posts, take them as one...

7:46 am on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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If the client is running IE6 Why?

The number of people running IE6 in Asia and parts of Europe (and the rest of the world) is way too high to ignore. There's no incentive for a lot of these people to upgrade. Either they don't know how, or they don't have the opportunity. They could be in a restrictive corporate environment / school / net cafe...who knows?

IE6 will go away soon enough, but I'm not too big a fan of web developers as an instrument of change. Just like in the last days of the Netscape browser, just make your sites degrade enough to work well with older versions. Making your site inaccessible to users of a certain browser is not the path most professional developers will choose.

1:24 pm on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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i can't even check internet explorer 6, i have a mac. and everyone who i ask has 7 or 8. so it is impossible (no i am not going to buy a windows computer, and there is a prog that makes IE 6,7 works on mac but i have a PowerPC not an intel processor) so if there are any problems whit IE 6 i don't know about it.
6:49 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

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i can't even check internet explorer 6, i have a mac.

Microsoft has a few versions of Virtual PC for Mac [microsoft.com]. You may be able to run the version of IE6 Microsoft provided here [webmasterworld.com].

12:25 pm on Oct 23, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Well for anyone running windows this program is what I use for viewing sites in older versions of ie.
[my-debugbar.com...]

Hope this helps.

[edited by: tedster at 9:44 pm (utc) on Oct. 23, 2008]
[edit reason] change link to the original source [/edit]

1:24 pm on Oct 23, 2008 (gmt 0)

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@bill

you can only download updates, i am not going to buy virtual pc...

9:48 pm on Oct 23, 2008 (gmt 0)

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@bill:
--
Virtual PC for mac is for ancient hardware (PowerPC CPU), you nowadays need parallels or vmware fusion on the Intel powered macs. And .. a license of windows that's OK to use in a virtual environment.
--

But virtual PC on windows is free last time I checked, and Microsoft even has free images of windows with IE6 installed ready to run in virtual PC.

When checking sites in IE, I've learned to always do it in a virtual machine with an image that's relatively untouched (a clone of a fresh install with nothing but patches applied) and always use a weathered copy (like my wife's PC). Sometimes the differences between the two can be attributed to having more fonts or other software on it.

As for ignoring IE6: on my main site I've still 31% of IE users that are on IE6 according to google analytics. Too many for me to ignore there.
Although I'm slowly starting to think to use conditional comments to offer them an upgrade the unfriendly way (A pity the firefox referrals in adsense are gone).

The most worry I have is that soon we'll need to test against IE8 as well, and if MSFT doesn't completely fulfill their promise to have it standards compliant -given their track record I've doubts-, we'll have 3 different versions of IE to deal with, at some point enough is going to be enough for me. And IE6 users might well be on the loosing end.

12:03 am on Oct 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

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There is a utility called "Multiple IE" which will do exactly what you want. I have run it for some time now and had no problems at all. Google will find it for you.
6:38 am on Oct 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

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@swa66
some friends of mine do have the beta version of IE8 and it seems like it works fine ^^ (at least one of my problems in IE7 didn't exists there)
1:23 pm on Oct 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

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There's at least, figuring conservatively, a hundred million users of IE6. Three out of four people on the net use Internet Explorer and IE6 still has, by most estimates, around 30% of that share.
If your site looks like hell in IE6, it will be the last time that person will be visiting your site.

Conditional comments work perfectly in feeding the style rules or whatever else to older versions of IE.
And it's not that hard to do.

Is it just me, or does anybody else find that the notion of telling, say, one in every five or six people to take a hike insanely self-defeating, lazy, and, possibly, an example of a kind of arrogant elitism?

8:44 pm on Oct 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

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it's not just you, poppyrich!
2:35 pm on Nov 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

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One could argue that as long as webpages are IE6 compliant, people will have less insentive to move towards other browsers.

Of course, losing customers because your page doesn't render right on their browser isn't good either.

Does anyone have any statistics on how many of the IE6 users have Win 2000 (or older) operating system and therefore cannot auto-update to IE7.

5:39 pm on Nov 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

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@deMorte
[marketshare.hitslink.com...]
only 1,72% uses Win 2000
0,78 % uses Win NT (i don't have a clue what that is)
but if we add all the other Win platforms together it will not be higher than 5%. so 20% could easily update