AOL and user refresh failure: a question of tact

User's page refresh fails due to either AOL or host: how to proceed?

[albo]

How would you proceed, gracefully? I have made requested updates to the client's page (replaced images, text). After a number of hours, the client's browser, via AOL dialup, does not reflect these changes.

(Off topic, and perhaps beyond my understanding: Host took an unusually long time to refresh page, and when I called W3C validator against displayed pages, I saw that they were enclosed within frames...? I tried on several browsers.)

Other users, via AOL, may see these changes: the updated images and text. Other users, via other ISPs, other browsers, other machinery, other OSs, may see these changes. The client is angry. I have suggested, purging cache, history, and cookies. No success.

I think it should not be properly in the realm of the webmaster to ensure a website displays correctly on faulty computers/ISPs. How would you proceed?

[csuguy]

From what you posted - it seems like you really don't know if it would work using other computers with the same or different ISPs. So, the first thing I would suggest is testing the site out with other computers - some with dial-up, some with dsl, some with cable. Of course, this can be a lot easier said than done. But if you have the connections to do so - do it. That will tell you if there is a problem with AOL dial-up, their computer, or whether its something about your site.

I would also browse online to see if there is a known issue with AOL and refreshing.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of application are you developing so that you would stay on it for 3 hrs? Is it a chat application?

Anyways, I agree that it is outside of the realm of a webmaster to have to worry about faulty computers/ISPs. However - it is not outside of the realm of a webmaster to worry about faulty web browsers! So really try to narrow down the problem so that you know if its them or you who have bad code.

Hope that helps,
Ryan

[albo]

Yes in fact I *do* know it would work with other computers, other systems, other machinery. It worked on my neighbor's AOL-connected system, across the street, the very next day after the change. It worked on a library system, using XP+IE. It worked on a friend's, cross-country, using FF+Vista. I tested on my Mac, using Safari, FF, Opera; my HP/XP, using Safari, FF, IE, Opera, Avast, (Amaya but that's off-topic); my IBM A31/XP with Safari, FF, IE, Opera. A wild variety.

The web page is not specifically an "application" ...merely a "flat" display of text and images. No interactivity. Just html+css. Two column layout ("sidebar" floated left, containing navigation, plus "main" containing content, floated right). Nothing special.

Connection speeds attempted: dialup, dsl, wireless.

I have:
<meta http-equiv="cache-control" content="max-age=3600" />
in the files.

Is there a further measure I should pursue?

[csuguy]

It worked on my neighbor's AOL-connected system

So then - the problem is only with a specific computer running AOL, not AOL itself? are they different versions of AOL?

[albo]

Identical: 9.1

[tedster]

Have you asked your client to hold down the Control key while clicking on Refresh? That almost always forces the latest files to be requested directly from the server, even through AOL's sometimes problematic caching.

[edited by: tedster at 1:08 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2008]

[csuguy]

OH - I think I misread your OP, my bad :D. I thought it was a situation where after 3hrs of staying on the same page things started to go wacky - Not that the updates to the server weren't going through...

Clearing the cache would be my first choice - its weird that that didn't work.

Maybe try setting the cache max-age to some very small number (0?) while developing the site and then let it run as normal once you've made all of the changes.

Also - this wouldn't be an ISP issue I don't think (unless the ISP is caching pages separate from your computer). I had a very similar issue with one of my clients about a month ago - I told them to clear the cache and to hit refresh several times. Usually hitting refresh several times works for me and my clients.

Ryan

[albo]

Hmm you''re right about checking online for AOL caching problems, too. I guess AOL is notorious for it.

But, yep, I had the client hit refresh SEVERAL times, to no avail. I just now found the "official" AOL instructions for clearing cache at: [webmaster.info.aol.com...]

I am groaning and moaning and hoping this will help. Wit's end here.

[edited by: tedster at 1:47 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2008]
[edit reason] post the official AOL link [/edit]

[jdMorgan]

Read those posts by Tedster and csuguy again... Your client must hold down the Control key while clicking refresh.

Also consider looking into setting the cache-control headers for your pages. A setting of Cache-Control: "no-cache, must-revalidate" with an Expires-after time of 7200 or so might ease the problem. These headers can be set at the server level, or from within PHP or other server-side scripts.

Jim

[Demaestro]

To clear page cache there are two ways.

ctrl+F5

or

holding shift, click refresh on the browser.

the other option is the clients internet connections is down and they are really only viewing the cache in offline mode.

[albo]

Well, Demaestro, the client's internet connection was up...we saw to that by disconnecting/redialing.

But thanks, all, for the info about refresh. We'd just been going for the browser "refresh" icon heretofore: no Ctrl key. As you might guess, I'm an AOL newbie and plan to stay that way.

I hope I may get my client grinning or at least calm again, using all these tips you have so generously provided.

[tedster]

You still may need the Ctrl key - note that the official AOL page suggests it.

I'm speaking from experience with several AOL clients - sometimes you do need the Ctrl key.

[csuguy]

I h8 AOL -.-

Had to use it as a child... Never again!

[albo]

Me too...when I downloaded a fresh copy as a favor to the client, it tried to eat into my system. Luckily I was able to prevent it and fetch only the downloaded files to a thumb drive and then purge the dreaded thing immediately. It is always the first piece of bloatware I purge from a new Windows computer. Followed closely by Earthlink and Norton.

[piatkow]

I always understood, rightly or wrongly, that F5 or "refresh" would refresh the browser cache but if the ISP had cached centrally then it wouldn't go back to the host unless you used CTRL + F5 or shift + refresh.

Never been a problem for me as I was warned off AOL before even buying my first PC.

[albo]

piaktow, I was warned off AOL, too, and it's a very good warning, IMO. But for your future reference, the folks above seem to be very right, and I have tucked it away in memory, deeply etched. It takes the extra Ctrl key to get the full effect (at least it did, for my clients).

[rocknbil]

There is one other possible issue. One I encounter on satellite all the time.

Satellite is a proxy server. This means the NOC of my provider caches pages and images. Even when clearing the cache, sometimes the update takes minutes or hours to display, pretty much what you describe. It's aweful to develop around.

This is particularly true when updating CSS files that are externally linked. Sometimes I have to call the CSS directly, clear the cache, refresh the page to make sure it's updated, THEN go back to the page in question.

The most efficient workaround has been page and file versioning:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="my.css">
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="my-a.css">
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="my-b.css">

If the page is in development, you can get awway with the same idea for the html files, but this is a bad idea for live files (SEO.) In that case, you just have to rely on constantly clearing the cache.

[albo]

Gives me the heebee jeebees as my client is about to switch from AOL to be on a radio signal through an internet cooperative that is satellite driven. Good to know, though.