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I'm wondering if anyone else has installed Safari on windows and how it works out for them?
Also, I have yet to update IE6-IE7 on my pc. I would like to know if anyone has done the stand alone version of IE6 (I think I might have asked this before, but it has been a while so I doubt that the thread is able to accept posting of questions.)
I have read several things regarding the usage of conditional statements after installing IE6 stand alone. Some things I have searched state that you can use them, other things I have read state that you can't use them.
Is it better to install the IE7 as a stand alone and keep IE6 installed?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
4~css
The Windows version, though, is problematic. There have been various threads on WebmasterWorld covering the issues but I will attempt a brief outline (which others may correct).
1. Safari by default sends downloads to the Desktop, and because of the way Windows works this has raised security issues - if you install it you should change the default download location.
2. Safari font rendering on some setups is unnecessarily bold.
3. Safari for Windows may seem like a good way to test how your sites work on a Mac but because Mac's handling of JavaScript is different this is actually not very useful.
I would say that on Windows you are better off using Opera or FireFox.
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Thanks for your reply. I do have FF, which is my default browser, and Netscape and opera installed. I was just curious in regards to Safari as I do see that mentioned a lot lately.
In regards to your point 3, if I am not using any javaScript on my pages, would the safari work ok?
I have installed Safari on Windows and it certainly works, but it needs to improve and I doubt if it will ever get a significant market share. I can't go into technical details but I believe it uses the same rendering engine as Konqueror, which reminds me that for testing websites a Linux live CD can be useful as well.
"Hell is other browsers" (Jean-Paul Sartre)
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1. Safari by default sends downloads to the Desktop, and because of the way Windows works this has raised security issues - if you install it you should change the default download location.
Forced downloads don't seem to prompt, as other browser (IE, FF, Opera) do.
2. Safari font rendering on some setups is unnecessarily bold.
Yeah, way too much anti-aliasing IMO - the text looks fuzzy! (Regardless of which 'font smoothing' option is picked.)
I was not aware of JS differences between Win and Mac - dang!?
I do not have enough technical knowledge to tell you why, but I have come across this situation while testing my sites and while using others - I ended up concluding that the only way to test a website is to use every browser available on every platform.
Starting development in something more standards-compliant than IE will save time.
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IMHO, testing in as many browsers and platforms as possible is a policy that leads to madness. Not cost effective, either.
Yahoo publishes a list of what they consider A-Grade browsers. In other words, a list of browsers that they fully support. The others get a less-than-full-functionality page. Not a bad model to emulate, probably.
Decisions must be made to narrow the scope. There is ALWAYS a cut-off point - just a question of where to draw it.
I am entitled to preserve my sanity.
RE: IE6 - I would greatly suggest keeping a low cost, older PC around just for testing in IE6. The hoops you have to jump through to do a side-by-side install, or use a virtual machine just aren't worth it as far as I'm concerned.
testing in as many browsers and platforms as possible is a policy that leads to madness
Then I must be completely insane, and presumably my sites don't work.
But I am not suggesting that you test every page you ever create in every browser on every platform before publishing it - that would obviously be rather time-consuming and not cost-effective.
What I am suggesting is that you test all techniques at least once - that way you build up a library of cross-platform cross-browser code that can be re-used, safe in the knowledge that it will work.
An example might be finding the CSS that makes Opera display your pages in exactly the same way as the other A-list browsers, or the JavaScript that works on everything including Safari for MacOS. If you don't do the testing you won't know where you are going wrong, and it is futile to complain that your code is correct and that a particular browser doesn't handle it properly.
There are many ways of writing code and many bad examples given in tutorials, so the challenge for the developer is to learn techniques that work consistently, as all browsers have their quirks.
As for Yahoo, their Mac support is notoriously poor so I tend to ignore them.
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I understand, quite well, what you are saying.
But the problem, for all of us, is time, time, time.
Testing is very time consuming and, let's face it, the vast majority of authors are just not set up for a wide range. Myself included.
With scripting, using a cross-browser library like prototype, jquery, scriptaculous, etc.... is one way to go because the cross-browser issues are taken care of internally by the code.
With rendering and CSS issues it's much trickier.
Client-side development is still a tough gig.
Decisions must be made to narrow the scope. There is ALWAYS a cut-off point - just a question of where to draw it.
And as he also stated time is important also.
I would love to have another pc to work with for testing one version of IE in regards to another, however I don't have that luxury right now to do so.
I haven't worked with JavaScript at all, so I guess installing the Safari would not be a big issue with me.
Any suggestions for other browsers to install? I would like to make sure that I have things covered with the pages I do.
For now I'll need to go with a side by side install of IE. I'm just not sure which would be the best to do. IE7 install, and IE6 stand alone? Or the other way around?
Thanks so much for your replies. I enjoy the feedback that you are both responding with, and this is how we learn things. So thank you so much!
4CSS
For now I'll need to go with a side by side install of IE. I'm just not sure which would be the best to do. IE7 install, and IE6 stand alone? Or the other way around?
I'm not sure if this really answers your query, but this recent thread might help...
[webmasterworld.com...]
Any suggestions for other browsers to install?
I didn't look up what Yahoo considers "A-list" browsers but I would suggest:
IE7, IE6, FireFox, Opera, Safari
There are new versions all the time and new techniques to accommodate, so it's an evolutionary process, but there has been a lot of convergence on standards in recent years - just be thankful the old "browser wars" are ancient history, and that Microsoft is at last attempting compliance.
Be aware that many "B-list" browsers share the basic engine of some of the above and unless you have time on your hands you don't really need to try them - for example, many are based on Mozilla so should work the same as FireFox, and Konqueror is a close relative of Safari.
Poppyrich is of course right that you have to draw the line somewhere, but this raises two questions: how to know where to draw it if you don't do the testing, and what to do with those that don't make the cut - degrading gracefully can only be achieved from a position of understanding.
And I didn't mention mobile and other handhelds yet...
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I had done a site last year for a friend who has a web design company. This was a very large site, and loaded with pages and pages of images. I had my son pull it up on one of his gadgets and it looked fine on it.
Now I didn't test, and didn't use a specific style sheet for his gadget (not sure what it was that he used, could have been his phone, lol) However, the site looked good, though small and you could navigate through it.
Do you think that sometimes we just get too fancy with code? And that creates issues?
@penders, thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Like multiple versions of IE, I'm running Safari in virtual PCs for the time being.
You mention you are running multiple versions of IE on your machine.
1. Did you have any problems with installation when you installed them?
2. Are you running IE6 as the stand alone?
3. Did you follow the information on tredosoft? (Please edit name if not permitted in queston)
4. Do you experience any slowing down of your computer?
Thanks again for your input. I know I have to get something going that is more then just the few browsers that I am using now.
edit: I did read the page you sent me to Bill, and posted a couple of questions for you on there.
You mention you are running multiple versions of IE on your machine.
1. Did you have any problems with installation when you installed them?
2. Are you running IE6 as the stand alone?Yes. (See above)
4. Do you experience any slowing down of your computer?
