Forum Moderators: open
First, thanks for helping out answering posts you feel qualified to cover around here.
This is just a quick note and request. We are going to try to cut down on the number of posts that get answered with "code" based responses to basically do my homework questions.
What we would like to do is start showing people where and how to find answers themselves. We'd like to stay away from "do my homework - here's the code" type questions.
Sure, there are some that are going to require code responses - I understand that and appreciate it when trying to split hairs among the browsers.
If we could try to nudge people in the direction of finding their own answers, I'd think that would go a long way to rasing the quality and caliber of the forum.
Again, thank you very much for helping the community out around here. I wouldn't have dropped you this note if I didn't think that.
CSS problem: go to csstutorials.net
HTML problem: go to htmltutorial.net
...
I think I get your point, Brett, but I also think that most of the people in here know these sites and look at them before posting. At least that's what I do. I only post in the forum when I can't find the answer to my specific problem on general sites. And that often means it is a problem that can only be solved by looking at the code and (hopefully) pointing to the error.
Sinner
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C):
The committee responsible for most of todays major internet code standards:
[w3c.org...]
There you will find the various major standards such as:CSS [w3.org], HTML [w3.org], and HTTP [w3.org]. They are also the only true authority on validation: CSS Validator [jigsaw.w3.org], HTML Validator [validator.w3.org].
For Javascript (aka: ECMA script), the home site is at ECMA.ch [ecma.ch] and the current standard is 262 (aka: js 1.3) [ecma.ch]
There are many other standards of course, but the idea is to go to the authority on the subject. Many people and even experienced people, do not even realize what a standard is or can do for them.
Other than that, a search engine is your best friend.
I do understand the concern Sinner-G. I think it helps to ask yourself, "do I really need code to respond to this question" before answering. Sometimes it's going to be yes for sure, and others it will be borderline. It's those borderline ones we'd like to address.
Remembering a while back...a thread title along the lines of "sploosh, I'm entering the world of PHP".....basically meaning there was an ocean of ideas to be had from it. It is all too easy to then ask "hey, whats the best thing everyone has made from PHP, and post the code please?"...or something like that :)
I try to think of WebmasterWorld advice (code aside) as those decisions you have to make at a junction on a road...which way shall I go, what merits are there for going down each road etc....as opposed to someone saying "do this, do that, it works"!
Basically I see this place as a hub for sound advice, up to date news, and a way to help solve problems. I don't see it as a holding hand making my web site :)
Essentially, what I think Brett means, or more aptly, the way I interpret it- is by saying that you shouldnt come here expecting people to do the work for you by splurging some code on to the screen...........the good threads of WebmasterWorld are ones that offer a two way discussion where everyone involved gets something out of it.
A "sort my site out in light of all the other forums and their respective webmaster intricacies" forum would not work too well imo :)
Universal wins hands down.....thats why WebmasterWorld should be PR10 ;) .... discussion for the web pro...and beginners ;)
I can think of situations, however, where posting the code or a URI to the problem child would help with troubleshooting significantly so I'd hate to lose this ability alltogether. But I totally agree with encouraging users to do more research - including myself.
Here's the post that I hope did not tip the balance.
[webmasterworld.com...]
Brett, what about a guide to code postage as to what is and is not acceptable in a similar way to the welcome post by (paynt?).
For example in this thread there is code posted:
[webmasterworld.com...]
Would the minimal amount of code here be within the limits. I know there will be times when things are borderline but a general exampled guide would help clarify the situation. It would be a shame if people were reluctant to post useful responses due to uncertainty on their part.
I would offer the suggestion that referering someone to the standard may not always be of use as they (me usually) has already done all the workhorses and even bought the book but is still having troubles. Sometimes the bit of code posted by another member is all that is need to get you steaming ahead full speed.
Just my 2p's worth.
Richard
Of course, I usually do the sample markup and code as much for my own understanding as I do it for the benefit of those that originally post the questions, so that won't change. I'll just not post what I come up with, but try to help in terms of generalities and abstract concept. ;)
[edited by: moonbiter at 1:57 pm (utc) on Aug. 6, 2002]
In fact, that thread was ground-breaking as far as I know. Most places on the web that talk about liquid table-free layouts gave up on Netscape 4 a long time ago, but Rhys gave us all a gift. If you only knew how many hours I tried to get a liquid 3-column to work in Netscape 4.
No one should be afraid to post THAT kind of code. It deserves an award.
But there are plenty around that dont fall into this category and are a little less generic.
Help still sort so I can fall well within boundaries. I am a law abiding citizen. :-)
I'm new here, and realize it's others who make the decisions on
what is and is not acceptable. I really like this place a lot and
accept whatever policies are created....however:
I've found in the past that I always learned a lot by teaching
and sharing with others what I was proficient in (i.e. programming). I found it
leads one to a deeper understanding of the knowledge domain when one
teaches and shares what one knows; at least that's been my experience.
Most of webmasterworld doesn't involve sharing code examples. To me,
having a forum on "Browsers, HTML and Web Page Design" with a policy
of seldom posting code to discuss or in answer to people's questions seems
a bit strained. Does posting code in this forum really degrade the
quality of webmasterworld? I suspect the folks who post code *enjoy*
doing so; it's simple enough to skim over code if one doesn't care for it.
Some people enjoy seeing how other people code what they do, but in a different way.
In fact, rather than result in the intended action, the policy can easily result
in:
1) Folks not sharing or asking questions because they don't want to
offend or get dismissed with a retort to "RTFM!" (or online resourse). How much good
content that in reality would be OK to post won't get posted in the future in the
mistaken belief it's not appropriate?
2) The fact that the line between what is and is not acceptable is
open to the connotation of a lot of folks. One person thinks a post is
OK, another doesn't and either a flame war starts, some "digs" are
exchanged, or request for one or more folks to judge what's acceptable or
not takes place, resulting in feelings of "clicks" or arbitrary fairness.
Bottom line is negative feelings arising in those who get "taken to the
woodshed", yet feel others post similar code that's deemed OK, and
nothing is said about it.
Hey, I realize one can't have the inmates running the asylum, and this
place is a wonderful resourse provided for free by people pouring their
time and money into supporting and running it -- and what those people say goes.
Moreover, to me, allowing code snippets adds rather than subtracts from
the wide appeal of webmasterworld; I suspect that prohibiting it would
lead to more diminishing of the "webmasterworld experience and contentment"
than permitting it would. Might there instead be a segment of the
"welcome message" that touches on this, and some senior members of the
community giving folks a nudge now and then to check a links section of
webmasterworld for authoratative resourses rather than a "code seldom OK" policy?
Just wanted to share my thoughts for consideration.
Thanks and take care,
Louis
That said, some of the short code snippets have really been provocative and have taught me a lot, so I certainly want to see people post more code. If it's a full screen of code, though, Brett is probably right and it might be best to Sticky it.
Tom
BTW ukgimp, did it help? (Sticky me)
Sinner
[webmasterworld.com...] - 3 column CSS was absolutely fascinating to me, and pushed me over the edge into about ten hours of research and learning CSS on the weekend (hehe.. questions to come when my head stops spinning). I find that 'real people speak' about a topic or issue can really help me get into it and even demystify it, whereas a pointer to a CSS manual or even full tutorials would have resulted in another bookmark for 'one day'.
I think posting resources for people to do their own research and minimising prescriptive code answers is definitely worth keeping in mind, but not at the cost of a free exchange of information. Heaven knows I've been in the positions where I just couldn't 'get' a concept or code however many manuals I referred to.
I think it's also important that we recognise that those conversations over a specific situation, as long as they are not being used by the questioner as 'free homework', can and do act as inspiration for the rest of us, and often trigger a "oh wait, maybe that relates to me in terms of....". Discussions of practical application of code are very valuable.
A bit of a side thread, but I'm looking for a site which describes HTML commands. If I have to answer without code but with a link, I would often link to this, but it only exists in german and french. So does anyone know of a similar site in english
I can't read French or German, but maybe these are similar:
The Web Design Group's HTML Help [htmlhelp.com]
Brian Wilson's Index DOT Html [blooberry.com]
IDocs Guide to HTML [idocs.com]
