Dont want to use FRAMES

is there another way

[Andrew Thomas]

Hi,

I dont want to use frames, but i have a top banner, with drop down menus on it, and a footer with an image on. Is there any way of keeping these on a page in view all the time without using frames? ie, when scrolling the banners remain.

I dont want to use frames as ive heard search engines dont pick up pages so easily, is this true?

[nwilson]

Frames are evil ;)

There are only theoretical ways of doing this with css at the present. The best way to do it would be to let the elemenst scroll naturally. It really does look nicer and more professional IMHO ;-)

Nick

[Andrew Thomas]

Thanks, i was wondering how it would look.

I notice all the pro sites hardly use frames, my current site im redeveloping uses them, but not for much longer

[nwilson]

Great!
I groan whenever I see them, you find that a lot of Front Page made sites use them, I guess that is the default way that it likes to do them.

To me they just look amateurish and take away from the screen real estate so needed by the real content.

Nick

[Marcia]

>Frames are evil

Nick, I believed that until this week, and still do where most sites are concerned. The very first little 5-page site I did after my personal homepage was in frames. I just did it over without. It was all set, and it was actually a chore to have to work around the design on the new page.

I've also been dealing with a product site in frames that was done over without frames this week, just when I had it all figured out what to do with it. The downside for me is that now, every time they make a change to the new homepage it'll have to be changed again, whereas they would have left my noframes alone. That's an advantage when they keep messing up your "stuff."

A friend keeps telling me that frames are my friend, which I didn't believe, but after dealing with these two sites, while they're generally a tremendous hindrance, I can see a definite plus side for them with a small, single-keyword or single-product site. If they're done right.

[nwilson]

I see your point.
Like most things, it's largely down to 'how it's done'

Though the changes could be easier if certain elements are made as 'includes'

I know you're recently into php right?

Check out PHPLib templates, they make changing stuff a doddle!

Nick

[Marcia]

>I know you're recently into php right?
Actually not yet Nick, been too busy fiddling with frames. ;)

I've been having a problem getting scripts to work on my sites with the current hosting company, I'll have to contact tech support to find out what's up.

I've looked through a LOT, and PHP would be a snap. XML, too. I'd be very happy to find out how to put the two together. There's someone right here [webmasterworld.com] asking about that very thing. I'll have to watch and see what the answer is to that, it would be a terrific combination, and very simple.

Andrew, I believe I've seen something with DHTML for the type of menu you're thinking of. I know you can do it with a graphic, like Geocities used to do with a little logo that stayed in the lower right corner.

Also, I haven't used layers ever, but I'm wondering if there's a way to have a menu on a layer fixed in a static position while the rest of the page scrolls.

(edited by: Marcia at 11:11 am (utc) on May 20, 2002)

[Black Knight]

Coincidentally I have been creating an article on optimising framed sites. If you go to the site in my profile you'll find it in the current focus section of the homepage.

I'm still working on the examples for it today though, but the article itself is complete.

Ammon Johns

[nwilson]

but I'm wondering if there's a way to have a menu on a layer fixed in a static position while the rest of the page scrolls.

No, you can do it in ns6 I think but the support for it is sketchy at best.

Background image fized positions are the only thing currently 'cross browser' proof.

Nick