InDesign vs. Quark

I need VALID arguments!

[lZakl]

I have ... well a dilemma here at the publication where I work.

Our publisher has retired, and the president of the corporation who owns us has much to say all-of-a-sudden since our publisher’s departure. One of his first questions was “What layout program are you using?” (the reply in my head was “what does it matter if we’re profitable?”) My reply was honest ... “InDesign”.

I would have thought that the fact we are using InDesign would bring the corporation to it’s knees the way he carried on -- But eventually the acting publisher and I asked “Why Quark? What’s the advantage?”. His reply -- “That’s just the way it’s done.” Corporate conformity, needless to say that didn’t sit well with us. We finally got him to agree to let us “Sell” him on the InDesign ideal. He is allowing this providing we don’t use the following arguments --

1) All of our stuff is already in InDesign -- He says we can make the ID to Q conversion slowly as to not lose a ton of production.

2) InDesign is better that Quark in any way -- He says it’s a matter of opinion, and what one lacks, the other makes up for. (I can read the expression on some of your faces right now ... I had to go back to my office and scream into a pillow...)

3) Cost. -- To this man, well lets say that he’ll trip over a dollar to pick up a nickel.

So -- Some of my main arguments have gone down the proverbial tube. Oh, and I want to keep my job, so insulting the man’s intelligence is out of the question ;0)

Oh ... and here’s another thing ... He says that it’s imperative (Just incase the Apocalypse happens) that one of the production people at another property, be able to walk into our organization and be able to fit in with as little curve as possible. And us moving to Quark straightens that curve in his mind. So he stated, “It would really help sell me if there was a program out there that could convert InDesign files to Quark files.” If there are any programs other than ID2Q which doesn’t work as well as one will need to, to sell InDesign to this man, can someone give suggestions or experience?

Ok ... So what’s your input?

-- Zak

[asquithea]

Ok ... So what’s your input?

Start migrating, slowly. I think you know in your heart that you're not going to win this argument.

Whenever your boss asks about progress, you can show him some new Quark designs, and explain that you're keeping costs down with a gradual transition.

Hopefully, he'll lose interest and stop asking. You'll probably end up with a mixed shop, in the end.

[jetboy]

InDesign's backed by the Adobe/macromedia axis, that also has the de facto image editing, vector art, web design and portable document packages in its portfolio.

To put it bluntly, Adobe's a growing company that leads nearly every market it's in. Quark's a one product company that's slowly but surely losing market share to Adobe.

Even so, I'd agree with asquithea; you're not going to win this one. This opportunity to 'sell' inDesign seems to be little more than good PR.

[monkeythumpa]

So you can sell him on InDesign as long as you don't tell him how Indesign is better than Quark? This guy is an idiot.

My favorite features are the native PDF support (importing and exporting) and the transparancy and layering of objects is much more flexible. I haven't used Quark's XML funtionality (does it have one) but the ability to feed a catalog from a web database is awesome.

And if you ever have dealt with Quark's customer service . . . don't bother. They didn't even have a Quark for Apple's new OS X for over 18 months. That is how I found InDesign and I have never looked back.

[PatrickKerby]

I don't have any hard facts other than I am in my third year of Graphic Design, (diploma) and the entire design program is this year beginning the switch from Quark to InDesign. This year the courses are still called intro to Quark, Quark 1, Quark 2, etc... but Indesign is also being taught. 2006 will be the first year where Quark will be completely flushed out of the education system (at my particular institution).

I know of one other school, just by hearing others talk, in the Greater Toronto Area, that is doing the same thing.

The professors and program coordinators just state "Indesign is working it's way in to become the industry standard"

[jessejump]

Search for indesign vs quark - many pages; even a site has that name.

[limbo]

You've got to keep working on him. Your arguements for Indesign were enough to make our team move in that direction:

[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]

Forget even talking about the qualities of each, talk money. the complete creative suite upgrade is cheaper than a single Quark one! The savings incurred by a team of ten, say, over the next 10 years, would be sizable to say the least.

And as mentioned this [webmasterworld.com] will have a HUGE impact on quark sales!

[Jon_King]

Make money now is the answer. Do not bet on the future concerning anything tech. If you cannot get a payback within 6 months, forget it. There is nothing long term about Quark or InDesign worth additional investment, they are both essentially the same and excepted by all major service bureaus, printers and designers. The switch will not make the company more money than staying with what you are currently using. It is much more likely; it will be a losing than a winning proposition.

To spend any money to make the switch is a bad investment of time and resources. It does not matter which one you are currently using, they are the same in any practical comparison, and a horizontal software move is just bad business.

FYI,
[en.wikipedia.org...]

[lZakl]

Wow!

I thank you all for your inputs! I have conversed with a few others and the guy is a true penny pincher, so I think some of you are right -- That the route I need to take is the business end of it.

After all he’s not the one who will end up with 15 hours of extra work per week because of problem PDF/EPS docs and the fact that for every 1 move in InDesign there are 3 required with Quark. But if he understands that we are looking at a potential loss not only in time, but monetarily ... He might listen.

Our conference is on Tuesday ... I’ll let you all know how it turns out.

In all honesty, if we move to Quark, I may start looking for work elsewhere. It’s not because I like InDesign much, much more than Quark ... It’s more of the fact that I can’t stand behind the sort of decision which has no more justification than “That’s just the way it’s done.” Not in my book, and I will most likely refuse to work for a company who will cause so much work and turmoil over such an issue. Whatever the outcome, I’d like to work for someone who bases their decisions on facts and innovative ideas, not ingnorant and stifling opinions. Anyone hiring? ;0) hehe

Thanks everyone!

-- Zak

[Gomez]

Zak

I think you nailed it! Quark is quite the dinosaur and your president obviously is one too. It is not uncommon for old-school Adv & Print guys to have strong, inflexible opinions. (Even if they are baseless!) This past June I went to the How Design conference in Chicago and attended a few seminars presented by egotistical old school advertising guys. It seems like once these types get a taste of success in their field, they stick to the same formula over and over, never veering from the path regardless if it is successful again or not. This is probably why your boss is preaching Quark so hard.

I was fortunate enough to also attend a few seminars presented by amazing designers who checked their ego at the door. The balance was refreshing and inspiring.

I have been in your shoes and know others in your shoes too. I moved to a different company. It made all the difference in the world.

[lZakl]

Had the conference with the boss. He said he's "not as anti InDesign as everyone thinks he is". He actually liked the idea we had about the weekly papers moving to Adobe products, being cheaper and better. However whatever his decision is, the daily papers will have to stick with Quark for now mainly beacuse Harris & Baseview products only include Quark flow filters for their ad management programs. This I can understand. It's a valid arguement, being that to switch ad management, per machine we are looking at something like $7,500.

So needless to say, even though I might leave this place, I may have kept InDesign in the door for a little longer... Let's hope permanently for the sake of productivity! lol

-- Zak