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Google Observations and the 100 algorithms

Google Observations and the 100 algorithms

         

clarksc3

6:14 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am a fairly new/inexperienced webmaster (3 years) and not a hard core programmer so fogive me if these are basic observations.

Is "Age" one of the algorithms?

I have 260 city based (city portals). All have the same layout and similar keywords except the city name and the same amount on content (but not the same content). They vary in age from 3 years old to 1 month old.
The 3 year olds are a PR5.
The 1 years olds are a PR4.
The new ones are a PR3.
These site do not have a lot of content (4 pages each) and not a lot of external links besides some of my own sites. So is Age a factor?

Linking weight.

The PR5 website's(home page)that link to some of my other websites home page (even if they are only 1 month old) automatically bring them up to a PR4. This may be the ONLY link they are getting. So one PR5 link to you = a PR4 for your new website's home page? Has anyone come up with a best guess PR Table as it relates to Links to you and your PR? Ten PR5's to you = a PR6 for your website?
I know there are many other factors (100 different algorithms) that make up PR, but is there a best guess what multiple PR values build up to?.

Can anyone else throw out some best guesses to the 100 algorithms or good observations?

Thanks

IanTurner

7:30 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The age one is something I've often wondered about, though this may only appear to be true because the number of inbounds tends to be larger on older sites.

jpavery

7:36 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think there is a trust factor earned by age (given nothing fishy is done)

stevenha

12:28 am on Jan 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Clarksc3, I think you've made a very interesting observation. Thanks for sharing it here. Would you be kind enough to give us more data about your sites. Your sample size of 260 sites ought to provide a nice little research study.

It will be hard to prove that "Age" is independently correlated with current PR. Even though the number of external incoming links might be small, and seem evenly distributed amongst your sites, it might be that your older sites have incoming links from older external sites, and those older external sites probably have higher PR than newer sites. But if you can carefully examine and control for confounding effects like that, you'll have made a big contribution.

I'd also encourage other webmasters here, those with multiple similar domains, to take the time to analyse your own sites, to see if you see evidence of an independent Age effect.

2_much

2:50 am on Jan 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I've had many new sites getting a very high page rank as soon as they are launched based on good inbound links, so I'm not sure how much of a factor Age is. I think it does matter for Inktomi, but not for Google.

clarksc3

4:02 am on Jan 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I will be glad to share whatever information I have. Do you have any specific questions or things you want me to look for? You can send me a sticky mail and we can share info offline. I am still learning a lot so I would probably gain out of the deal.

Response to 2_Much: I have also had a new site start out of the gate with a PR 4 because of Good inbound links. What I am saying is that I have a large sample of sites that do not have good inbound links putting them on equal ground and have factored out much of the inbound link equation.

Just from my observations Age of a site contributes to PR but is not THE major factor.

vitaplease

7:26 am on Jan 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



clarksc3,

time makes for more time to collect links.
older webpages sometimes have links from "expired" pages.
all things being equal, you cannot beat those older webpages.
luckily in real life not all things are equal.

also:

[webmasterworld.com...]

julinho

10:42 am on Jan 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



clarksc3,

Allow me to offer a suggestion. Sorry if itīs too obvious.
Use google to search for one of your old pages: www.domain.com
Google will show a description of the page, and four other options (cache, similar pages, link backs and *pages containing the words*).
Click on the last option, and see how many pages have your domain on it (thatīs probably a link that doesnīt show in the link: option); do the same to the new pages, and compare results.

I have some old small sites (couple of pages) which I just forgot about; however, I am always surprised about the number of people who, for some reason, link to them (and I can only know it by using the option I mentioned above); this has purely to do with chances of someone finding my sites and liking them (I donīt ask or offer links exchanges), which means it has to do with the *age* of the sites.

stevenha

2:37 am on Jan 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Clarksc3 and I did some extra analysis of clarksc3's 260 domains. We recorded their Age in months since debut, their PR, and the number of incoming links reported by AltaVista. ( Google wasn't used because it doesn't report low PR links, and only half of the remaining links... which would be too few for analysis. Alltheweb wasn't used, because it was reporting inflated numbers dominated by internal links and cross-links within the network of 260 sites).

27 sites were excluded from analysis because their PR is known to be determined primarily from some specific external high-PR links. Another 29 sites were excluded because they were only 3.3 months old, which could cause Altavista to severely underestimate their links, if Altavista's spidering cycle is slow. Sites that were 5.3, 7.3, 10.4, 12.9, and 13.3 months old were included for analysis.

The remaining 195 sites, showed a correlation between number of links and PR. As links increased, the trendline showed increasing PR, as expected. The number of links correlated with the Age of the site, increasing with Age. These two factors seem to completely explain this final mild correlation... that PR increased mildly with Age. We did not find evidence that Age independently correlates with PageRank. ( We did not disprove the theory, just failed to prove it).

The sites with PR4 had a median of 7.5 links, sites with PR3 had a median of 5 links, and sites with PR2 had a median of 2 links.... in this particular group of sites.

It just goes to show... if you build it, links will come. ( If the content is OK.)

JamesR

3:58 am on Jan 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I tend to think sites that are not updated often get penalized. I had a site dropped because I let it "rot" and it should still be on top except for the unfreshness factor. I don't know this for sure, guess I would have to update it to find out but at this point, there isn't a lot of motivation :)

daamsie

4:15 am on Jan 9, 2003 (gmt 0)



I don't know whether age is a factor. I doubt that it would be though.. but I do think it would be a good factor, considering an old site has proved that it will be around, rather than dissapear suddenly.. I often click on links in Google, only to find that the page has dissapeared.. perhaps that could help eliminate some of that..

I feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot though saying that, considering my site is no more than 6 months old and has gained PR very quickly :)

JamesR

4:42 am on Jan 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Goes both ways. Some old sites get complacent and don't have fresh material and therefore are of diminished use to users. Also, if you search in a particular topic, odds are you have been to the core sites already and are ready for something new. I think sites that update content frequently in comparison with others in their niche should be rewarded.

Shadow

10:14 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




Don't have any evidence of how it works today, but in the original algo they had, or did consider, to boost newer sites, not old ones. I haven't read the original paper in full so I don't know if it's mentioned there, but I do have an old slideshow they made.

cornwall

10:27 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I tend to think sites that are not updated often get penalized. I had a site dropped because I let it "rot" and it should still be on top except for the unfreshness factor. I don't know this for sure, guess I would have to update it to find out but at this point, there isn't a lot of motivation

I would go along with that. I have only ever had one site dropped, and I believe that was the reason. It was a site I did not update.

I have been trying to revive it of late, and I notice the Google is now sniffing again. Dropped for a period of about 8 months.

Converserly where I have noticed an aging factor is with sites that are about a year old, suddenly acquiring a large increase in traffic. I have never thought of trying to tie it to Google PR, but a couple of large sites come to that age before Easter, and I certainly will keep an eye on TBPR as well as traffic.

JamesR

10:29 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



So maybe old AND updated is the key...pure speculation at this point.

georgeek

10:37 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thank you very much clarksc3 and stevenha for the analysis - I had often wondered about this and now thanks to you I have an answer - well done!

ExtremeExports

10:41 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I posted this in a different forum but was referred to this one. Does the Google tend to base a PR on the industry the site is in (ie automotive, travel etc.) can a specific industry, only achieve a certain pr?

instand1

11:06 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



ExtremeExports:
I don't think that PR is higher or lower depending on the industry of the site. To compute the PR Google is counting the links and the PR of the links, that's all.

ExtremeExports

11:08 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I thought so too, but my site has more backward links (my competitor has none) I don't understand. Or does the difference start to show by a significant number of backward links?

steve128

11:32 pm on Jan 10, 2003 (gmt 0)



Hi,
I can only speak regards my own sites/findings, but I have noticed google age factor is not a consideration regards PR.
Granted, the older site - google hits have increased fairly significantly, but has remained a steady PR6/5 for the last 2 years.
My newer sites, some only 6 months old have a PR4, and very few links, more to the point quality links in.

The older site came in with a PR6, moves about a bit, now PR5, so I would think for me at any rate age doesn't matter!
( when I launched the site it had approx 30 links in, now approx 650 )

However, I have noticed MSN and others; hits for the older site over the last few months have increased significantly.
Perhaps MSN use age as a factor, or are their spiders slow?