Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Will I get a reply?

         

dodger

10:26 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I sent this message to help@google.com regarding a site. Yes, it's a competitor of my client.

<<I found this page (below) in your index - it redirects to the sites homepage after using a hidden page filled with keywords and links to gain position. Right click on the main heading link and choose "save target as" to save the hidden page to your desktop then open that page (it appears blank) and view the source to see the keywords and links to other similar pages with keywords in them.

I've also attached that page to this message for you.

My question is - is this technique ok with Google? If so I may use it for the site I administer but I would need guidance from you first as I would never allow a site under my control site to make use of misleading or improper techniques.

I look forward to your reply.>>

Left the details out of this post of course - but will I get a reply? and will Google check the page in question?

If not I might as well do the same thing!

coconutz

10:38 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



My question is - is this technique ok with Google?

See Google Information for Webmasters Quality Guidelines-Specific Information [google.com]

but will I get a reply

You may or may not get a response.

Welcome to WebmasterWorld. [webmasterworld.com]

dodger

10:45 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes I've seen the guidlines and I presume their technique is wrong but will they get away with it?

Their positions have improved and it's unfair that they can get away with this while others do the right thing.

coconutz

10:59 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



will they get away with it?

Hard to say. Watch the site's positioning for the next few months, sometimes it may take awhile.

Google Spam Report [google.com] If you feel you must, report it and then work on improving your client's site, don't waste your time dwelling on it. Just realize that resorting to the same techniques may expose your client to the same scrutiny if someone else reports it.

Brett_Tabke

11:08 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Doubtful that anything will be done about it. Sounds like the page is probably part of another search engines legitimate feed program and google just ran into it. Far more common than you'd think.

dodger

11:10 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



<<Google Spam Report If you feel you must, report it and then work on improving your client's site, don't waste your time dwelling on it. Just realize that resorting to the same techniques may expose your client to the same scrutiny if someone else reports it.>>

I've already reported it through that form plus the email.

Please don't think I stop work on my clients site and dwell on issues such as this - I won't use the same techniques but I'll do my best to ensure that no one else does either.

I'ts not much consolation to my client that we are doing "the right thing" if their competitor has the good search positons and they don't.

It's up to Google to follow up on these things otherwise their results will be littered with these sort of spamming sites.

If they don't?

dodger

11:12 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Brett_Tabke - sorry to hear that. I may have to look for a similar "accidental" advantage.

<added> legitimate feed program? Surely this is not legitimate practice elsewhere?

Lots0

11:24 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)



There are several technics for putting hidden text on a page that Googlebot can not find. The only thing you have to worry about is some angry Webmaster or SEO snitching on you. And even after being sniched on as Brett pointed out, the chances of Google doing anything about it are very slim.

dodger

11:31 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



if that's the way it works it doesn't make Google look too good.

If that is the case there seems little point in playing fair.

coconutz

11:40 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



dodger, didn't mean to imply anything, just trying to say that from what I've read here and elsewhere it's seems to do little good to report a site, as you'll only end up frustrated. Try using the site search [searchengineworld.com] and search for "google spam report" I'm sure that you'll find similar threads.

Lots0

11:40 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)



Playing fair - just what is that? (In this context)

What we have here is a situation where you can play by somebody else’s rules (Search Engines) or you can play to win.

If you chose to use those technics just be sure to discuss the full extent of the possibilities with your client, before you take any action. That’s playing fair in my book.

dodger

11:43 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I meant playing fair by Google's rules.
If they don't police the situation then playing to win has to be the way to go.

dodger

11:54 pm on Dec 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



coconutz - thanks for that link - I can see the bigger picture now. However I don't agree that spam reporting is a waste of time or shows some sort of weakness in the reporter.

If your competition climbs over the top of you by breaking the rules then it's good business and makes good sence to point the finger at them.

If their tactics are ok then use them yourself, if not they should be penalised as you would expect to be.

coconutz

12:03 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>However I don't agree that spam reporting is a waste of time or shows some sort of weakness in the reporter.

All I'm trying to say is that in most cases the reporter's primary objective is getting the site removed from the index, and that doesn't seem to happen very often.

dodger

12:13 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I was actually referring to many of the comments in the "google spam report" search that you suggested - not your comments.
Seems to be a recurring theme - forget about the competition, get on with your own site.
Well I can do both - it's not hard. I think competitors who use dodgy techniques should be reported.

Lots0

12:23 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)



Well "dodgy" or not those technics are beating your client out of money as we are typing.

IMO - I tell the client everything and let them decide what they want to do - most of the time they want the money. Those that don't want the money right away usually change there mind when the "dodgy" sites keep beating them out of money.

dodger

12:32 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



lotsO - you're probably right but it's a hard call because once you're in the area of IP redirects and so forth it's hard to turn back again and once your site is flagged as a spammer it can have adverse consequences across a number of se's not just one.

Lots0

12:57 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)



Yes it is a hard call, that's why I have the client make the decision, after they have been fully informed of all the "what if's".

EliteWeb

1:01 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Writing a message in that manner to google i dont think you will get a responce. its like 'MOM JONNY THREW PEWP AT MY FACE' ... 'MOM! JONNY THREW PEW AT MY FACE IS IT OK IF I THROW PEWP AT HIS?' Arnt you gonna stop him, if not then why cant i....

Brett_Tabke

1:01 am on Dec 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Sure, other feed (xml) programs will mostly take anything. They are trying to cut down on the amount of spam that gets into the system that way, but they can't stop it all. We had to end up cloaking for google on a couple of client domains just to keep the bot out of the micky content for others. It's quite common and practiced by some of the biggest ecomm sites on the net.

dodger

8:47 am on Jan 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Congratulations Google - the offending site has disappeared from the index.
They said you wouldn't do it but you proved you are better than the average SE after all.
I'm very impressed - very well done!