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The reason that this is causing problems for Google is that it's allowing people like us to fill up the SERPS with our affiliate rubbish websites - because we learn how to manipulate the SERPS by examining other sites' link structures and ultimately discover their methods of obtaining backward links.
This is creating search results that are a bunch of similar sites that link through an affiliate code to one of the sites that SHOULD come up for a search.
For instance, if I came up with a genious method of getting high listings at Google for my affiliate sites, another webmaster can usually come along and pick my method to bits just by examining my backward links. Then that webmaster will dupicate this method and so on, which not only opens the door for unintelligent spam monster webmasters to earn good money, it also creates a game of who-can-manipulate-google-better.
Why is Google allowing this?
What about pagerank, this is just a fantasy that has absolutely no relevance to anything. Why is it displayed, and why are webmasters doing monkey tricks to artificially increase theirs?
Google is supposed to be a search engine, but it's turning into some kind of spammy battleground where webmasters dual each other by furiously linking and examining each others affiliate rubbish websites in order to copy them.
This trend is only going to continue, until Google puts more emphasis on site content, rather than links, or at least stops displaying backward links.
Ultimately, the poor sod who is searching for something is going to see the top 10 sites with just about identical 'content'.
*shrugs*
In the past search engines that relied on on-page content were mercilessly spammed - is a page with a keyword density of 6.8% for 'widget' really the best page about widget? How do you tell a good page? It was because this question couldn't be answered that Google came to prominence - treating a link as a vote produced much better SERPS.
Should Google display PR? Why not, it's a great branding tool for them. Most serious SEOs don't care for displayed PR all that much, they care for relevant ranking.
And backlink checking is not what you would do in Google anyway ;)
greg
I do agree that an inbound link is a 'vote' in a site's favour, but this rule doesn't seem to take into account the site itself - is it a personal home page, a reference page, or a commercial page? Not at all the same category or volume of linking. What I mean to say is, if I have a page on "The history of Widgets" it is only natural that other "Widget fans" will link to my site. If I have a home page some others may take interest in my amateur interest and link as well. Now, if I have a commercial site... who is going to link to me? Even if my site is plebiscited by thousands of customers by day, very few of them have home pages and fewer would think to link to me. That leaves... other sites selling the same thing as mine? Not. Sites interested in commercial products such as mine? All too rare. Anyhow, those looking to buy "Widgets" will do a google for "Widgets" to go to a site selling "Widgets", rarely to a site concerning Widgets with links to sites selling Widgets.
A bit long-winded perhaps, but do you see the reason for my perplexity? If we are obliged to 'find' incoming links to get 'vote popularity' thus page rank, I can't see how it can be done naturally. If my site is commercial, should I buy links? Exchange them? All this has very little to do with the merits, quality and efficacity of my site.
greg
treating a link as a vote produced much better SERPS.
It only takes time and some innovation (and dissatisfaction with the current situation) to improve an algo or invent an even better one. At least of Google I know that they are researching, other companies do too I bet.
For commercial sites, I think it's very natural to get embedded in the community by looking for links from the (related) outside. Where would you have placed a banner in pre-SE times?
IMHO hunting for links was THE thing since invetion of the WWW (ok, maybe a couple of years later), it's only natural.
I really appreciate the possibility to learn from others via the backlink feature. This way, no one can dominate any SERP forever, cards are shuffled again on a very regular base. Even if you dominate you have to get better.
Thanks to google and affiliate programs we (at least most of us I guess) can make a decent living.
This is creating search results that are a bunch of similar sites that link through an affiliate code to one of the sites that SHOULD come up for a search.
If affiliate sites beat out the merchant sites themselves it's because the affiliate sites have practiced more diligent SEO.
This is one reason affiliate programs are good marketing tools for the merchants. A merchant doesn't have to worry so much about SEO tricks and can focus more on making the sale and satisfying customers.
I think it's very natural to get embedded in the community by looking for links from the (related) outside. Where would you have placed a banner in pre-SE times?
D'oh! You have a point. How 'bout those of us who have our a**es between two chairs because we have a small 'home commercial' site and no budget for advertising?
I would love to hear more about affiliate programs...
and can focus more on making the sale and satisfying customers
Google doesn't owe SEOs anything; in fact, I suspect Google would prefer if there were no such thing as SEOs, but realises that's not going to happen. If SEOs find "genious ways" (sic) to get high listings, then it's only fair (and Google has always seemed to promote a policy of fairness) to let others see those methods.
Google's policy promotes a culture of quality and competitiveness, in preference to one of spam and secrecy.
If anything, Google should aim to update its display of backlinks more promptly, and to show *all* backlinks, even those from low PR sites -- although perhaps via an additional "view all backlinks" option, as per the current "view all results" option.
yet is the primary tool for SEOs trying to game the system
As Michael said, it promotes competitiveness. And I think it also helps to detect spam. It would be very expensive for Google to go through their SERPs for each and every keyword and look at the not-yet-filtered methods of spamming. But SEOs always are very quick about finding spamming in the SERPs and either copy it (thus making it somewhat irrelevant if everybody's doing the same) or inform Google or beating it with more backlinks.
Anyway, why try to obfuscate? You can sort of figure out the PR from SERPs, and could even find the backlinks in Google with other means. Would it really make a difference?
In page factors can be manipulated....e.g. web position gold.
Backlinks can be increased through link campaigns... however link campaigns are hard work, and very time consuming. Most webmasters don't have the time (or patience) it takes to get 1,000 backlinks (which I think is a good goal). Also, link exchanges are a natural thing, and as old as the internet itself. If google disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, I'd still be looking for reciprocal links, because my link partners bring relevant, targeted, free traffic to my site everyday.
Google has it's flaws. However, they have the best system in place right now. They give the most relevant results for most people, most of the time. Period.
Absolutely. Right now SEO is mostly about buying high PR links. Take away the toolbar and you throw this practice into disarray.
>> It's funny how so many people spot the flaws in Google, yet can't propose a workable alternative.
You don't have to be a mechanic to tell if your car is broken. And anyway, I did propose an alternative: lose the toolbar.
Right now SEO is mostly about buying high PR links. Take away the toolbar and you throw this practice into disarray.
IMO obfuscation is never a good idea. Not in security. And not regarding SEs.
Well, no.
It's all about pages and anchor text. High PR links is trivial in comparison. High PR with tons of anchor text is better than low PR and tons of anchor text, but that is about it.
PR2 sites with thousands and thousands of non-dynamic pages can easily rule search terms of under a million results. One family I watch now has about sixty of the top 80 search results with sixty (ten thousand page) PR1 and PR2 sites. Its sick. Pages with anchor text are all you have to do for most stuff. Pages with anchor text with good PR is what is needed for competitive terms (new/fresh is a bonus too).
For the few sites I do SEO for, they regularly place in the top 5 for their terms and generally beat higher PR sites and none of them have purchased links.
It seems to me people just get frustrated because they can't come up with creative ways to get links without paying for them. I admit, it is time consuming and takes a little creative thinking.
There are a plethora of good solid free links if you do a little work and figure out how to find them and then ask for them in a way that will get you the link.
I think the way Google has shaken things up lately with the PR reporting and back link reporting being off is a good think.
I regularly see new PRO sites in the #1 spot for searcg terms. If it was all about PR, those sites would not show up.
the toolbar will be the downfall of Google
Maybe it will be the trump card of google. It has privacy issues and it can track the activity of SEOs ;). That being said I feel the toolbar is already showing bonkers PR values. And getting links is like socializing on the net. The more links you have the better known you are on the web. It's not a perfect syytem.. but better than the rest.
Also, there are many specialized directories for every kind of business. You can get links there and find related businesses. There are many gems to find on WW.
...I would love to hear more about that - if you don't deem it relevent here please feel free to sticky me.
I do have a 'natural' ad campaign going - quite honest, believe me : ) I will just be patient, I guess. But still, I dont' rightly think it's fair that I be number one if only I have the might to BUY my links to that spot - through the investment into a massive ad campaign which reflects my monetary might, not the quality of my site. Commercially speaking, of course.
When you acheive the number one position from sweat and hard work you CANNOT sit on your laurels. You can't just enjoy the ride. You have to continuously be ahead of the competition...work harder, work better. Always keep ahead of your competition by making them try and catch up on a continuous basis. Most site owners who are not serious will eventually give up.
If attaining link partnerships with the appropriate anchor text is what works and is effective right now, then for the sake of survival you need to "play the game" while it exists. If you don't do as the Romans do, you will perish as a site owner.
Really, if you don't like your current situation, DO something about it! Stop whining and complaining.
I disagree. The Google algorithm (links being counted as votes for a website) worked better before SEOs grasped the concept and starting reacting to it.
What's so bad about obfuscation anyway? Sometimes it's just better to keep some things secret.
Google is supposed to be a search engine, but it's turning into some kind of spammy battleground where webmasters dual each other by furiously linking and examining each others affiliate rubbish websites in order to copy them.
I make my living using affiliate schemes and rebranded sites. I dont think there is anything wrong with them, and mine are certainly not rubbishy.
If you find my widgets directory during your search for widgets , then you have a good site full of information about widgets and reviews of companies where you can buy widgets cheaply. Thats exactly what i would want to find in a search engine result.
I feel that affiliate site webmasters get a hard time - ok - some are a bit useless , but i think that the more successfull ones are the ones that actually add value.
What do you guys think?
PageRank is a nice greenbar :) Heck I don't use it on many of my computers, want a highly ranked site get everyone to use it. :P
As time evolves new things will come out, think of how many people already dropped out of SEO from trying to keep up with the game and getting tired or failing thus dropping out. Its all a game, you reverse engeneer the search engine algarythms when you get sites to the top or ya'r the one who uses the info to get it there.
In a highly competitive market its not as easy as just a few links and a meta tag. :P And I love reading all the posts here, makes me think more. :P This post made me think 'never get too comfortable with your ways as the SE's will evolve and if you dont you will die.' mmMm fortune cookie style.
[edited by: EliteWeb at 11:18 pm (utc) on Sep. 23, 2003]
