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Google "Relevance" Explored

"Dumb question from New Guy"

         

Spogum

10:44 pm on Jul 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Google says, "Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query."

Does anyone have any concrete advice as to how to achieve "relevance?" (aside from the obvious: keyword in Title, Alt-tags, body text, etc.)

Mohamed_E

10:59 pm on Jul 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Welcome to WebmasterWorld, Spogum!

The only "dumb" question is the one you are afraid to ask.

Brett's post on Successful Site in 12 Months with Google Alone [webmasterworld.com] will tell you a lot about a strategy that many of us have persued with excellent results.

If you want to know how thw designers of Google were thinking (a few years ago) check The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine [www7.scu.edu.au].

Spogum

10:08 am on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks to both of you for these links. I've read Bret's memo in detail (and took good notes) and will take on Brin and Page (again).

Bret's detailed analysis appears to apply more to those SEO tasks related to selling from one's own site rather than the task of optimizing a client's site. Thus, he emphasizes the lengthy process of building content and optimizing for a broad range of keywords.

I am usually involved in the opposite: having a relatively short window in which to demonstrate results, and focusing on one or a small handful of keywords.

What I'm looking for in the forum is more specific advice on the "relevance" factor in respect to Google SERPS. That is, I'm working from the (correct?) assumption that incoming links from "relevant" sites/pages have more weight than links from "irrelevant" sites/pages. I'm not talking PR here, by the way.

That raises some questions: 1) am I right about the relevance factor? 2) How is relevance calculated by Google -- considering each of these elements: keyword, link text, originating page, originating website, theme of those sites that link to the originating website?

I hope this makes a lick of sense.

mil2k

10:51 am on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Does Google recognize themes? We do not know for sure. As far as optimizing pages in limited time period goes your prime target must then first be Titles of the pages you are targetting , Strategic placement of keywords on the pages and getting incoming links with Keyword rich anchor text. Still these methods require some time period. HTH :)

Mohamed_E

11:06 am on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Last month GoogleGuy suggested that (at least currently) themed links do not have a greater weight than others: [webmasterworld.com...] (message #51 in that thread).

There are at least a couple of algorithmic approaches that Google might take when (or may be I should say if) they decide to factor in relevance:

1. The "recent" Google patent: [webmasterworld.com...]

2. Topic sensitive pagerank: [webmasterworld.com...]

As far as I can tell, what these approaches do is increase the weight given to relevant links while still giving some weight to others.

Spogum

12:01 pm on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



SEO pros operate on the assumption that Google DOES recognize themes, and Google itself says as much. This is from the Google site:

"Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query."

This strikes me as saying explicitly that Google is looking for a "theme", even if that is only location of a given keyword, or synonyms of that keyword, in the title, description, body text, alt-tags, link text, etc. of the pages it indexes.

My question to the group: does anyone have any specific notions as to what Google looks at, how it might prioritize the various elements of the pages, or any insight into this at all?

Spogum

12:02 pm on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Mohamed,
This was really amazing -- you answered my question even before I asked it.

glengara

12:14 pm on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I've taken to looking at "similar pages" to see what comes up, some of the off the wall results can only come from off-topic links.
AFAIK no-one has cracked the whys and wherefores of "similar pages", might they not be part of the basis for determining page relevance?

Spogum

4:24 pm on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Glengara, based on your posting, I did a study of all ten of the off-site "similar pages" for one of my sites. The data is persuasive: in every single case the primary keyword from my site appeared at least once in the title, tags, or body text of the similar page (but there was no pattern, ala "always in the title." BUT in every single case for the ten pages studied, there was at least one common backlink. AND there may have been one--but possibly NO reciprocal links with my site.

This would suggest that Google's criteria for "similar pages" is, in priority order, 1) Common inbound link, 2) Common keyword, and 3)(speculative) NO reciprocal link.

I'm leaving that last one as speculative--in could be quite the opposite for other sites. The rationale for NO reciprocal link might be to defeat the interlocking of your own sites, or the usual SEO link swap. I would doubt this based on some very solid results I've been getting with link swapping -- but that could be based on PR, not "relevance."

Now, if this can be interpreted as an algo for "relevance", Google is saying "a link to your page gets rated higher for relevance if its page-of-origin has common inbound links and at least one common keyword somewhere on the page. And maybe a few points for NOT having a reciprocal link?

This is, of course, exactly what Google says in the text I quoted earlier -- have I just rediscovered that the wheel is round?