Google-opoly and the everchanging game

google has too much power

[kanetrain]

Make no mistake about it, we're all playing the googleopoly game.
The troubling thing to me is that this game has no published rules. Sure, there are suggestions and hints and forums like this where we can go for some info and other users who guess what is going on, but we really don't know. Google keeps the real rules of the game locked up and hidden away. They do this so the cheaters will not win. Gesh... that's a weird idea. "Let's make a game where nobody knows the rules, so that nobody will figure out how to cheat... but if they do cheat, let's punish them."

The whole idea is just a little weird to me. There has to be better way. I really like Google and it has been really good to my business... we've even managed to survive the Dominic Disaster without too many bruises. But just because my site fared well this time, doesn't mean it will next time. And I don't like the fact that another company has so much control over what happens to me.

I believe that a site should be built to help it's users and that it should be designed to get them the information they want. Just because a site is built in flash doesn't mean that it isn't relevant for a particualr search term. So how does Google know what is and isn't relevant?

1. - How about a ranking system that allows the public to rate sites when they visit (google toolbar version 2 ratings?)
2. - How about tracking how long users stay on certain websites. If users are clicking in from a search term and clicking out...perhaps the site isn't all that relevant for that search term after all (see google toolbar 2 TOS).
3. - How about ranking sites based on a traditional algorithm but also giving them a stronger weight for a higher user rank and a higher average visit time per user.

I know many of these could be abused, but there are ways to minimize abuse (only tracking 1 set of data per IP per day) etc. etc.

I just think it's time for the game to have some rules and I think it's time to hand a little of that power to the general public. Sorry for rambling.

[Brett_Tabke]

There is no game.

[victor]

I think the problem is that a lot of people are trying to use Google to make money.

But that is expressly against their terms of service:

Personal Use Only
The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales. You may not take the results from a Google search and reformat and display them, or mirror the Google home page or results pages on your Web site. You may not "meta-search" Google. If you want to make commercial use of the Google Services, you must enter into an agreement with Google to do so in advance. Please contact us for more information.
[google.com...]

There is absoluely no reason why Google should publish information to make it easier for people to make money using ther services, when we all know that is against the rules anyway.

[chiyo]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum. There are hundreds of threads where we can read about people's opinions about this in site search. There is nothing new. what there has been to say has already been said, and those who disagree have replied.

Brett and Victor are completely right and have summed it up well.

[kanetrain]

Very interesting thoughts...
I totally disagree with all three of you, but will refrain from posting in depth until I've read up on the arguments that have been posted before on the issue and done better research.
Admitedly, I should have done that first.
I think it's a matter of "how" we view Google and not who is right or wrong, but I will just agree to disagree at this point. Perhaps there is nothing more to say.

[Symbios]

>> there are no published rules

I think there are if you look hard.

>> There is no game.

Google to survive have to compete and serve up relevant results which means they have to be pretty innovative in order to combat many of the spamming techniques, publishing a list of things that would get you blacklisted or would match the preffered criteria would be an open invitation for the spammers to manipulate the SERPs (and I don't mean those doing better than me just those serving up rubbish to googlebot).

Brett is right, its not a game, those that do well make a lot of money, those that do not may have to put people out of work, including Google if it looses popularity.

[amazed]

sure its the game the web is about - offering free content and trying to make money.

like WebmasterWorld for example....

[why2kit]

ok - my $0.02
Google provides a service.
Google has competitors.
Google is "at the moment" the best provider for searching the web.
Google is not a "non-profit" Corp.
ATT&T - Got big - Anti-trust action - they lost
Microsoft - Got Big - Anti-Trust action - they lost
The consumer/visitor doesn't care who provides the service/information.

If you can't deliver - you go bust.
If you can deliver, and your good the govt. will try and shut you down.

With google having 3.4 Bn pages, and going for 10Bn, they don't care about any webmaster, or website.

Google will only do better when they start rating pages by a visitor usage model rather than a linking one, thus allowing the consumer to define their model of the web.

But when these guys IPO - I want a piece.

[kanetrain]

I will be the right behind you in line to purchase a piece of the Google pie. And you are right... They don't give a rats rear end about the individual webmasters. Well, they don't care about the ones who are playing the game... but I pay them a nice chunk of change every month for Adwords so they care about me a little. They sent me a 1-800 number to call for any questions or info I needed about my account.

I hope they do go to a user rated model at some time in the future. It honestly might hurt my sites ranking (We are #1 for a lot of keywords) but I think in the long run it would benefit the user and the internet in general. I'm being altruistic here. Hooray for me.

I could be wrong, but would you really be reading the the "google" area of this board if you weren't concerned with the game. Whether you are trying to increase your sites ranking for fun or for commerce, you're still playing the game.

I must say I really respect those of you that offer a free site with free content and free resources and free services and never take a penny from advertisers or any other resource to cover your costs. Those who do it all out of the goodness of your hearts. I hope you don't start using google's new Adsense system on your sites... then you would be using Google to make money by using Google to make money. And thus... you would be breaking the Google TOS.

The lines have all been blurred with Google Adwords and Adsense. Gesh, even Google uses Google to make money now. Isn't that against their own TOS? They own it... so they can do what they want, but it's all a little strange to me.

[johnser]

<edit>

[1milehgh80210]

"I hope you don't start using google's new Adsense system on your sites... then you would be using Google to make money by using Google to make money. And thus... you would be breaking the Google TOS"
LOL, good one.

[satanclaus]

It isn't a game. There is no way to win. Google is a system that if we're lucky we can benefit from it. They don't owe us a thing.

[agerhart]

Well said satanclaus.....instead of complaining about it, spend the time learning about Google, and how to make money from it.

[davester28]

<quote>
Personal Use Only
The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales. You may not take the results from a Google search and reformat and display them, or mirror the Google home page or results pages on your Web site. You may not "meta-search" Google. If you want to make commercial use of the Google Services, you must enter into an agreement with Google to do so in advance. Please contact us for more information.
[google.com...]
</quote>

This is talking about using the front end of their search services to make money. Like, for instance if you offered a search service, and used their front end to pull results to poulate your search results. (and selling your own version of adwords on the side). It is not talking about making money on your web-site that happens to be listed in the google results.

[kanetrain]

Exactly davester28. My previous post was simply more sarcastic way of pointing that out.

I'm not complaining about Google. I actually still prefer them to other search engines, I was just saying that there's got to be a better way for search engines in general (and Google specifically) to rank sites.

I do think google has too much power. Right now, my site is ranked #1 for basically every high traffic term in my industry (so I obviously have done my reasearch on Google and have figured out how to make money using them). But I don't really like the fact that Google is so powerful. A little competition is always good.

For those of you who don't like the term "Game" let's call it a "Challenge." The word doesn't matter... but all of us are trying to increase our ranking on Google and other search engines.

[Kirby]

But I don't really like the fact that Google is so powerful. A little competition is always good.

I disagree about Google being too powerful. If Y! switches to INK, if MS buys Overture (INK included), if ATW were used by Y! if MS buys Overture, if AOL...

Google has market share, not a monopoly. Nor does Google have the power to shut down its competition. Google is not King. Y! and MS have the ability to even the playing field very quickly. And an IPO will just galvanize the competition even more. The SE industry is fluid, not static, and can be very volatile.

[purge]

I wouldn't say google is a game by any means.

I would say watching you SE rankings fluxuate is more of a game.. and pretty fun :D

My only concern (and this is where I work) is that people seem to focus more on google than any other search engine... my opionion from my viewpoint.

[CCowboy]

Kirby

Has a great point.

The next 6 months are going to be wild!

[satanclaus]

I would say watching you SE rankings fluxuate is more of a game.. and pretty fun :D

Game, no. Addiction, yes

[kanetrain]

Good points.
And you are correct about Y and MSN.

[Patrick Taylor]

Game as in "competition", like professional golf, with a leaderboard.

[twilight47]

Google is a system that if we're lucky we can benefit from it. They don't owe us a thing.

They don't and we don't owe them anything either.
But that argument is superfluous to the mutually beneficial relationship that exists between Google and Web Contenteers.

Now I will go have a beer. :)