heading 1 Tags - Still Relevant?

[bekyed]

Are the heading 1 tags still relevant with google or shall we remove them from our websites completely
What are your feelings on this?

[gilli]

jamesa - Check your sticky.

DrOliver - Thats a huge improvement on my method. Very nice.

[Oaf357]

I always enjoy these conversations. Let me start by saying that I didn't read all seven pages before posting so this might have come up already. Let me also acknowledge that I'm new to the whole SEO game (but very old to web design in general) and have learned a great deal from WW, W3C, Google (guidelines), etc. Let me also state that I try very hard to create web pages that validate to W3C standards (aka I create valid pages, period).

I find it very interesting that EVERYTIME there is a H# discussion (or similar discussions) that the people I have deemed as reputable sources of information here in forum3 ALWAYS mention W3C guidelines (the "Wow... I know kung-fu" line was classic). Then these same people say to design to W3C standards/recommendations and NOT Google ideals. Which is sound advice IMHO.

Does this prove to a certain degree that Google gives more weight to valid web pages better than invalid pages?

Does this mean that Google also enjoys seeing pages that conform to W3C guidelines thus giving those conforming web pages a better "value"?

These discussions go so far into the topic H# tags but usually stop short of saying, "Yes, Google likes adherence to standards/guidelines."

This might have already been asked in this thread and I know it has been asked in other threads but put these two questions in line with the majority of comments in this thread and you seem to have two answers to those questions.

[gilli]

Does this prove to a certain degree that Google gives more weight to valid web pages better than invalid pages?

Does this mean that Google also enjoys seeing pages that conform to W3C guidelines thus giving those conforming web pages a better "value"?

These discussions go so far into the topic H# tags but usually stop short of saying, "Yes, Google likes adherence to standards/guidelines."

I think Google is very sensitive to the fact that not all authors know about W3C standards or have the knowledge required to implement them. Google is certainly not about creating a technical elite, quite the opposite. I also think Google doesn't always agree with the W3C, Sergeys comments I mentioned early vs. the direction of W3C HTML standards is an example of this.

In subtle ways Google do encourage good usability - some examples are penalising cryptic urls/boosting urls with a logical human readable structure, boosting text based navigation, boosting relevant titles and so on. However they only do this where these techniques marry nicely with their algo and can be spam protected to some degree.

This might be stating the bleeding obvious but I think people would do very well to look at how Google mark up their own pages. They probably put more emphasis on getting things to render well in NS4 than I would and there no real attempt to be valid, but they do put a lot of thought into their work and *some* of it is really good.

[McMohan]

Another small little doubt doing rounds in my mind after reading some posts on Hx tags.

If using H2 and following tags ahead of H1 tag in a page causes any concerns? i.e no H1 at all in the page and the main heading in H2 default size without any CSS resizing.

Thanx

Mc

[jamesa]

>> H2 and following tags ahead of H1 tag

Theoretically, no. Think of H tags as an outline, or a hierarchy, so it always starts with 1.

So this outline...

The contruction of blue widgets

I. The circuit board
.. A. transitors
.. B. wiring
.. C. heat sink

II. Assembling the case
.. A. Tools
...... 1. screwdriver
...... 2. hammer
...... 3. duct tape
.. B. Parts
...... 1. Nuts
...... 2. Bolts

III. Painting the Widget

...would translate to this in HTML:

<h1>The contruction of blue widgets</h1>

<h2>The circuit board</h2>

.. <h3>transitors</h3>
.. <h3>wiring</h3>
.. <h3>heat sink</h3>

<h2>Assembling the case</h2>
.. <h3>Tools</h3>
...... <h4>screwdriver</h4>
...... <h4>hammer</h4>
...... <h4>duct tape</h4>
.. <h3>Parts</h3>
...... <h4>Nuts</h4>
...... <h4>Bolts</h4>

<h2>Painting the Widget</h2>

I guess starting with <H2>'s and working down will still make the document structure obvious, but I don't think that's how it's intended.

<added>How Google treats it is a different story - I'm not sure about that.</added>

[g1smd]

Yes! You are supposed to start at <h1>. Some versions of HTML, such as ISO-Strict require this.