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Pay for Google deep crawl

What about new content on existing sites?

         

MatthewHSE

11:06 pm on Jun 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I know Google doesn't sell PageRank. But couldn't they at least sell a deep crawl once in awhile? For instance, I'm about to add hundreds of pages to my site of quality content. But, from what I understand, my page rank is too low to expect a deep crawl anytime in the near future. So, my old content will stay in the Google index for ages, while my new relavant content will not be included.

Why couldn't there be some account system, like AdWords, where webmasters can pay for an immediate deep crawl to get new content indexed? That way, us low PR sites would have a chance of increasing our rank as we add content. It could even be limited, like no more than two deep crawls per month per domain.

Notice that I'm not asking to buy a high ranking; I'm just asking for the chance to get some added material included in the index. I think this is a very feasible idea and one that can only improve the Google search results.

mrguy

11:14 pm on Jun 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



You really need to read up on the latest update threads.

Deepcrawl as we know it may not exist anymore.

athinktank

11:45 pm on Jun 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think that you are incorrect about the deep crawl not happening because of low PR. Most of the sites I run are PR2 or lower. Googlebot seems to chew up thousands of pages each month ( both the fresh and deep bot ). If page launched, then googlebot, then it is in the following update.

Patience is the key.

heini

11:57 pm on Jun 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Mathew, welcome to the board

There are quite a few people who believe a PFI option is only a matter of time. Just a speculation though.

We'll see how Google's indexing behaviour will change when finally the dust of this non update period at Google has settled.
In all fairness it should be noted that Google has been the best and deepest indexing engine over the last two years or so.
Lately Google has been slacking, while ATW and Inktomi, even AV have been getting more active.

MatthewHSE

12:10 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Thanks for the replies folks! Heini, you've brought up the issue that actually prompted this thread. Several search engines have crawled my site within the past week or so. Inktomi's was by far the largest crawl; Google's was the smallest of all identified crawls.

europeforvisitors

12:54 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)



Several search engines have crawled my site within the past week or so. Inktomi's was by far the largest crawl; Google's was the smallest of all identified crawls.

Crawling is only half the battle. For a long time, AltaVista's crawler was sucking up my pages like a vacuum cleaner, but the AV index wasn't updated for months. Google has always been the champ at adding pages (since the days of Infoseek's "instant idexing" feature, anyway). Thanks to the freshbot, I've had new pages appear in the Google index within a day or two. Still, it's good to hear that other search engines are finally trying to catch up.

simonv

3:50 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is a topic I have been communicating with the Google sales team about. As we have so many pages (about 3.2 million), the amount we would pay them to *just crawl and index* would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars every year. As I explained to them, we don't want special position, just a presence to come up whenever anyone does a fair search for our products. This would be pure extra revenue for Google, not impacting AdWords or Sponsorship top of page sales.
But the answer is 'No", and the given reason is that it would 'taint' the purity and therefore the respect earned by the current totally uninfluenced listings they have. My view on this is that this argument is fine only if Google is doing a decent job of indexing and keeping things updated. Sadly, they may still be the best, but most here seem to think they are far from perfect.
I begin to wonder if there is room for a completely new PPI engine a little like the print Yellow Pages...

dmorison

4:00 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I begin to wonder if there is room for a completely new PPI engine a little like the print Yellow Pages...

There are millions of websites that will take your $$ for inclusion in their 4 page views per day "directory".

The problem is the chicken and egg scenario. Yes - a good PPI indexed SE probably has a place now but how do they get the traffic up front to make paying for inclusion worthwhile?

If the answer is "make it a very low cost to begin with", then unfortunately you make it worthwhile for the Internet noise to register and don't gain anything.

Google however, already has the traffic...

BigDave

4:16 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



simonv,

I happen to agree with Google. It is not pure extra revenue, it would cost them a lot of money in the long run in lost ad revenues.

Even if you are not guaranteed position, it still taints the results. You are gaining an advantage in the number of pages that are being indexed in comparison to a similar site that might even have more links coming in.

What will happen is that commercial sites will flood google with any sort of garbage page knowing that they can get into the index. While more important informational sites will get a normal crawl, or possibly even less of a crawl because the bots are busy with the "paying" cuatomers.

The balance of the index will tilt towards the paying commercial sites.

Now other than the actual taining of the index, there is the even larger problem of the lost trust in the results by the users. Going PFI was the beginning of the end for many of the other search engines.

If google loses just 10% of their users due to lost trust, that would be $75 million. How much do you think google would be able to make on PFI without tossing out their free crawl? I don't think they would even break even.

simonv

4:23 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Unfortunately, not something you can test without committing to the results.
But just maybe this is why Google created Froogle...

chiyo

5:14 am on Jun 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Even PFI will skew the main index in favour of those who can or can afford to pay. Even though they would not get a better ranking, their content would be more up to date and in the index quicker by definition.

Then imagine the complaints when google decides to drop these pages, or donwgrades them when they change the algo. Its the Y! webmaster PR nightmare but multiplied multifold. Once people pay, Google may feel compelled to favour these pages or keep them in if the next day they intrdcue a filter that filters them out.

As others have pointed out, PFI does take money to run.

On the other hand other options do exist in the form of Adwords and Froogle. In fact there you get free guaranteed instantaneous (at least in the case of adwords) crawling!

Google's main unique advantage is the quality of their index (despite whatever roadwords are under way now) increasingly combined with a fast loading search page. Google strategically does not need to make money off the main SERPS. That is their come-on. They make money off adwords, licensing, and later maybe news.google, froogle, and a heap of ad ons. Moral for me is - keep the main index as useful and simple for the user as possible - then sell the eyeballs on adwords, licensing, news, and the like.

I know ATW and Teoma and sometimes AV have good results, but I use them much less because i know the google search page comes up almost instantaneously, and the results are simply displayed and that the others take longer to load, and the results sometimes beg for post processing in the form of "themes" and the extra post-processing options they offer. Thats great for advanced users, but for simplistic people for me, my perceptions is still that good results are faster in Google.

Additionally as far as AV and ATW are concerned I suspect they will be used by OV to feature their paid listings, as they are now, but how they are used when fully integrated is anybody's guess. My guess is that the OV content will be further featured and the default search page for ATW will become busier and slower to load, even if each continues as their own sub brand. - the future is even less well known for these brands as it is for google.

(sorry for drifting off topic)

Its also interesting to note that AV and ATW both utilize PFI (as does Ink) though we know that at least Ink has improved their index multifold since they restarted crawling the web wider for non-paid for content. In all cases, people here are reporting good SERPS in all in recent months, though that hasnt carried over to referrals (users have not been attracted yet). This to me will be a good test of how PFI influences the quality of search for users in general. It will be fascinating to see if OV increases the influence of PFI listings, keeps them the same, or decreases it.