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On the 2nd May - when the 'something weird is happening on www-sj.google.com thread' started [webmasterworld.com...] - which led to the 'Update Domenic' threads - we all had no idea that Google was about to (we now speculate) move to new algorithms, new filters, new pagerank and a 'rolling update' process.
I suppose I've been trying to understand the timing - and the best analogy for Google at this point in its evolution is it has become just like Intel.
Intel's success in the PC Micro processor marketplace was underpinned by the observation of one of its founders, Gordon Moore. 'Moores law' identified that the number of transistors that you could fit onto the same space on an Integrated Circuit doubled every 12 - 18 months. Moores Law has been true since the mid 1960s - and still holds true today. Exponential growth. The realisation of Moores Law effectively made Intel adopt the business proposition - if you don't become your own 'worst nightmare' competitor - someone else will.
Once Intel realised that every 18 months - you could build a whole new generation of processor - at lower cost, on a smaller piece of Silicon - thats what they HAD to do - and it became a self fulfilling prophecy. Why? If they didn't - someone else would. There was no room to be complacent, and 'milk' the technology marketplace, and slow the rate of introduction - or someone else would launch a faster, better, cheaper processor. And they tried - with technologies eg. RISC, from numerous competitors.
So Intel became their own 'worst nightmare competitor'. As soon as they made cost savings - they reduced prices. As soon as a new breakthrough manufacturing process became available - they jumped on it. They moved up to the next highest ground - and left the 'old' technology for the 'compatibles' companies. When traditional supporting chipset manufacturers couldn't deliver chipsets to support new generations of Intel processor fast enough - Intel started making support chipsets itself. Pretty soon - Intel was making the whole motherboard - and was driving the rate of change. In short - they made the whole industry so fast paced & cuthroat - no one else could easily, or profitably, compete. There is Intel - and there is 'everyone else'.
In the Search industry - in the past 6 months - we've had the 'contenders' line up. Yahoo bought Inktomi. Overture bought AltaVista and FAST/Alltheweb. Google bought Pyra (Blogger), introduced 'content targeting' for Adwords; & bought Applied Semantics. And only a week ago, Ask Jeeves sold Jeeves Solutions, and announced plans for a $100M Convertible Notes issue - bolstering its battle chest.
The Intel strategy was based on the premise that if you don't take advantage of the technological advancements you know will happen - your competitors will. Thats what makes the technology industry different to most other industries. Todays Hard disk drive cost less - and holds more - than the one you bought 2 years ago. A competitor who replicates Googles distributed PC architecture today will do so at a substantial discount to Googles cost for the same platform. But the car you buy today doesn't cost half as much as the same one you bought 5 years ago, and yet have 2 times more power, speed or fuel efficency. Yet the PC you buy today is far cheaper - and much faster, with more storage and....
We were all 'happy' with Google - but Google can't wait for its competitors to move forward - for fear of leapfrogging. Several people have already commented that Alltheweb can do some neat stuff - and it accurately counts backlinks, it now gives whois information to the unwashed masses etc. And all the PFI's by definition, are doing 'rolling updates'.
Google has done a lot of things - and introduced a lot of features in a short space of time - but it had to accelerate the rate of change - and really become its own worst nightmare competitor. Because if it didn't - it would risk someone else (probably the new Overture/Fast Alltheweb/ AltaVista entity - lets call them 'All-Over-FAST') becoming Googles worst nightmare.
Google worked out what AltaVista didn't understand a few years back. If Google wanted to stay number 1 - it had to grab the goal posts, and run away and move them as soon as technology allowed it to. And it had to do it before 'alloverFAST' gets its collective act together. Otherwise, alloverfast might become Google's worst nightmare competitor in a month and leapfrog them. And if its not alloverfast - what have Yah-tomi been plotting?.
Who really thinks Google wanted to do these 'Domenic' changes live and in full view? I think it didn't want to - it had to. It couldn't justify the cost in time to market to do this behind closed doors - and wait for months. It had to do it - it had to work in the datacentres live - and Google had to do it now. In the last month, Google has exhibited all the desperation usually associated with being pushed and wrongfooted by a competitor - and is acting like a company rushing to catch up. Google has been smart enough to bring this on itself - Google has become its own worst nightmare competitor - before itsallover has got its act together....
Google was already clearly ahead - the current 'roadworks' are Googles way of moving further ahead - before it got pushed/ leapfrogged & was forced to play catch up. These roadworks will move the goalposts. And 99% of Googles users don't even know that there are currently roadworks..... As we all know - in the serps - who better to be the competitor breathing down your neck - than yourself?
Alternatively - I may be wrong - Google may have just messed up - as many have suggested. But I don't think so. I think Google will still be holding the crown when the dust from these roadworks settle. And just think - we've all had the chance to share some of Googles worst nightmares....
Chris_D
Sydney Australia.
The optimistic way is to look at the fact that GG is here. If you want to have private discussion then there is a subscriber's forum or the Stickies. ;)
Dolemite:
> Google doesn't produce any product that will compete for the same niche in the same temporal space as any other Google product.
Perhaps not, but they don't seem willing to sit back and enjoy their success. With no real competition to motivate them, motivation must come from within.
Google have huge market share and a phenomenal brand, yet they never quite seem satisfied. As long as the 'we can do better' mentality continues, I can't see anyone in a position to take their crown.
Politics! Hell no - GoogleGuy - I held Sales and Marketing Directorships in European IT companies during the early 1990s - that was enough politics for anyone's career!
However - if the right role came along at the Asia Pacific 'Plex, I might be tempted......
: )
Chris_D
as a relaive newcomer as well, you probably dont know the role that GG has developed. As a google employee who comes here on his spare time he is also a webmaster world member. He does not speak ever as an official google spokesman though as an insider he can sometimes give clues, and sometimes he likes to comment on topics that are not specifically to do with google. He is a member like the rest of us, and like the rest of us he has some specific experise and knowedlge that he is willing to share on some topics.
There are other ways to get definitve answers from Google and all other search engines on how they operate, to the extent that they are willing to divulge - their own web pages and published guideliness, and sometimes people have said google answers their emails personally!
I think most people who have been here for a few months are aware of Googleguy's role here - and its often the new guys that tend to over analyse his/her comments. That's no criticism at all of new guys, but it takes a while to learn the processes, personalities, and informal workings of any community!
I think most people who have been here for a few months are aware of Googleguy's role here - and its often the new guys that tend to over analyse his/her comments. That's no criticism at all of new guys, but it takes a while to learn the processes, personalities, and informal workings of any community!
I agree Chiyo.. well said. If you listen, he does drop hints that are in his realm, take it lightly. True, I do not have clients I need to depend on me, so maybe some take everything and analyze it looking for the "secret trick" or what have you... he's just a normal guy like everyone else who enjoys this stuff like I think all of us do. (unless we are lost in the ranks of course). He will hint, such as when the dance used to start and I would flip on and people would be jumping up and down when its going to settle and you would see a "get some fresh air" comment.. you knew well give it some days, it wont be happening today.
Cheers all... may we all come out winning.
-Chris
I think it makes the point pretty clearly:- there is a lot of things happening in the search engine world.
And I like your analogy to Intel.
...That's no criticism at all of new guys, but it takes a while to learn the processes, personalities, and informal workings of any community!
When the Winds of Change blow as fiercely as they do at the moment, "old guys" can sometimes get nervous, frightened and defensive. Without the "new guys", whose fresh analyses and enthusiasm over the past few weeks have provided all of us here with some important insights, we'd still be listening to the nonsense about how things would work out just fine, if only we'd have a little patience.
...as a relaive newcomer as well, you probably dont know the role that GG has developed....He does not speak ever as an official google spokesman
GoogleGuy often asks a member for this or that information so that he can check something out, and then reports back ( see hanan_cohen's current thread on Google Israel) - that sounds pretty like an official Google position to me.
Google doesn't produce any product that will compete for the same niche...
I think Intel's old boss, Andy Grove, said it best with his book title - Only the Paranoid Survive.
Many, many successful companies end up foundering because they are unwilling to render obsolete the product that makes them successful. Doing that is risky - killing the cash cow and hoping that the new calf grows to be even bigger requires courage. Hence, many companies keep milking their cash cow until their competition kills it for them.
Chris_D, I like your post. As successful as Google has been in producing great results, we know that condition can't last forever without changes that go beyond mere tweaking. It seems like they are willing to take some chances to hang onto the leadership position.
(edited to fix typo)
[edited by: rogerd at 5:56 pm (utc) on June 6, 2003]
I agree 100% on that one, my comment was only on why googleguy's role can be misintrepreted without some history.
I highly appreciate new insights and new blood and new opinions but dont agree that "older members" can be characterised as sproughting "nonsense about how things would work out just fine".
First it may not be "nonsense" and indeed may be the wiser advice, and secondly, older members have certainly not been immune from providing new opinions (even though from old vessels maybe!) and many have expressed opinions that indeed there are major changes afoot and these are far broader and significant than simply discussing whether things will be "fine" or not.
dstewart also argued that >> GoogleGuy often asks a member for this or that information so that he can check something out, and then reports back ( see hanan_cohen's current thread on Google Israel) - that sounds pretty like an official Google position to me.<<
personally that sounds to me like an employee from google provding advice. It may be very useful, but its no more "official" than your busdriver advising on the bus companies finance procedures at your community meeting. Thats not an official communication and hes a bit of a consultant (like many SEOs are) - all care; no responsibility.
And thats not been rude to Googleguy. There is no way google will put themselves into the position of being sued by what an employee says on a public board in his spare, unpaid time. Thats why there has never been, and probably never will, be an official statement from Google saying they are responsible for what Googleguy says..
...it might take a few days to nail it down and get a fix pushed out, but it shouldn't require any crawling/indexing changes, because we have the correct documents
There's some good reasons why it was a little hard to push this fix, but nonetheless almost all servers should have a new binary that handles this correctly now.
Doesn't sound "like an employee from google provding advice" to me, Chiyo. It sounds like a pretty "official" guy doing a pretty "official" job.
Anyway, fantastic post from Chris_D
spare, unpaid time?
Seems to me that he is checking this forum from his workplace during paid working hours. ;)
Having said that, I'm sure he/she/they is/are (a) nice guy(s).
Other people have said it, but it is worth repeating.... Very good post.
georgeek,
as a relaive newcomer as well, you probably dont know the role that GG has developed. As a google employee who comes here on his spare time he is also a webmaster world member.
chiyo - you sound like someone trying to protect an online alter ego... I don't believe you really are, but c'mon - Do you *really* believe that Google does not know what GG is up to? Or who he really is?
GG does not appear to be here on just personal time and there is no way Google would just *let* an employee put forth company policy... or even *hint* at company plans etc.
Could you imagine an insider of McDonalds giving out information about corporate plans or even just giving out hints of plans on a major forum? Not a chance.
Not without permission. IMO, WebmasterWorld gives Google a ton of QA testing. We easily spout off tips and techniques to GG because for many people here -> GG is Google. GG is *not* able to take off his Google hat. It is not possible. No more than a politician can seperate themselves from anything they say - or even the Dixie Chicks.
Once someone like GG comes out into the light - he is Google, and Google is *not* our friend. An Emissary from the King perhaps, but *always* for the King.
For GG to say that he personally likes something is disarming. It is verbal judo. The thoughts spring forth that 'he-is-one-of-us'. We trip all over ourselves to get a response from GG. We hope to touch the Orb.
Joe
Come on people, GG is a very positive contribution to this board, understand that he can't give the shop away, and has to tread a fine line between corporate policy and PR.
I would love to see Google allow GG to give more away....but one step at a time, it may happen in the future. We get more hints, tips and insider info from GG and Google than any other SE!
This is all wrong, if Intel had its way we would be paying $1500 a CPU right now, you forget about a little thing called AMD. This Intel analogy is all wrong.
Google is for a lack of better words "not very bright".
Yahoo is gone it cant be won back, a little thing called Inkomi, Yahoo is going to have a field day with this Fiasco, their marketing department will eat this for breakfast.
Aol, Netscape, and Yahoo, are all extremely pissed right about now. I really dont care if people dont find 404's or just plain Unrelevant pages in the serps, because I know they are there, Ive been hitting them for a month.
You think Aol and Netscape arent going to lean towards Yahoo, after this? This is not the right time at all to pull this stunt, Google is at 80% looking to be 55%(Yahoo says bye bye) real quick and after this stunt it wouldnt surprise me at all if they ended up with 30%(Aol and netscape join yahoo) and some guy named Dominic commits suicide....
Maybe it was a attempt to go live that went bad? Google to big for its britches and its worst night mare, no. There worst nightmare is trying to pull this thing off, right when Yahoo is getting ready to launch.
Technology advancements made google try this? Like with die shrinks for Intel? .25 to .18 then .13 ect ect.......
Die shrinks save Intel Big money, they dont do die shrinks to keep up with technology, and bring the customer the state of the art piece of silicon they do it because on one Wafer at .18 they only get 450 cpus, and at .13 now they can get 850 cpus, its all about making more money.
So now technolgy has made it possible to go live with a search engine database? I dont think so, it will boil down to money. They are losing Yahoo, roughly 35-40% of their money.
Maybe technology will help google find hidden links and hidden text too................
Hi chicago, you should re-read my posts. That is not what i said at all. GoogleGuy is very important to Google, whether he is an alterego is beside the point, and does not need defending. He is here with google's blessing, knowledge, and of course reports back, but that does not make him official. Same as all the other SE employees who browse this forum, and even possibly post, without letting us know. The diff is that the GG boardego is more transparaent on who he works for.
I have already posted my understanding of what googleguys function and role is in this thread so i cant repeat myself. GG and Brett have both stated that GG is here unpaid and on his own spare time - of course if you are a senior member of an organization, you know that you really do not stop working for the organization in your spare time, even though you may not directly be paid. The fact that he may post during his holidays or lunchtimes/smokos instead of ingesting that Grateful Dead menu is beside the point as well.
gstewart.. your extra quotes only prove to me that GG knows a lot about google and has personal access to top people in certain departments at the least, but it does not invalidate my only point - that he is not working in an official capacity, and that his advise is not official Google advice. Even the CEO or PR guy need their public statements approved before they become official company policy in any company.
The quotes I gave - in Msg #45 - showed GG acting in an executive way. It's simply impossible to read his participation in this matter differently.
Of course
...GG knows a lot about google and has personal access to top people in certain departments...
He acts on that knowledge. In my view that's good and helpful, and I'm grateful and glad he does.
But merely "advice" it ain't. It's a guy doing his job...
Whether he's "official" or not doesn't matter, but if people keep up all this probing and speculation about him he may decide that he shouldn't make any further posts.
Leave him alone and enjoy his input while you can.
Keep this up and you may lose him.
This is not actually true. If an officer of a company makes a statement it is deemed to be reliable and accurate. The company as such is largely bound by their statements. All part of the responsibilities of being an officer of a company.
I don't believe for a minute that GG posts anything here that is not within the guidelines set out by Google's corporate attorneys.
Having said that, GG's posts are very valuable and should be encouraged to the max! So all those whiners criticizing him please quit...or most of us are going back a step or two!
Apologies.....this is indeed the wrong place for this discussion....a new thread....albeit in breach of TOS is required.
however just a loast repost to gestewart
>>But merely "advice" it ain't. It's a guy doing his job...<<
His role/job includes giving advice, but it isnt official, which is the only thing i was arguing. Whether he has influence over google as a whole by acting in an executive manner, again is besides the point when it comes to whether his actions are official or not.
OK iid shut up at this point, as a whole thread devoted to GG may not be very useful.
