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Similar industries are fine on virtual domains. Call me paranoid, but personnally, I wouldn't link any domains on a virtual IP, especially in your industry. If you're crosslinking duplicate content, well...
Further discussion here [webmasterworld.com].
added: how did you find out about the other 365 domains they added? <my virtual ip paranoia increases>
OH, welcome to Webmaster World.
I operate 260 city-based websites. City POrtal travel type stuff. All are on one dedicated server with the same IP. I have been doing this for about 1 1/2 to 2 years. My site are a PR 4 to PR 5 and have gradually increased in PR and traffic. I link regional (geographic) site together. i.e. New York site with my Boston site, etc etc. I also link all city sites to one main domain where people can see a list of all the available cities.
I have never been banned or penalized.
Of course who knows what the future will bring and what Google will be looking for in the future.
If there was a penalty for using same IP's sites there would also be a penalty for same subnet sites. So you would have to get a different provider for each site if you wanted to be safe. If all your sites are on the same subnet that is just as dangerous as using virtual hosts.
All of my store sites sell the same type of product -- t-shirts, mugs, etc. -- but do not sell the same designs on them. They are categorized out into patriotic, art, funny, etc.
I host a number of non-profit sites for friends and groups I am involved with.
I host local government sites, and local political campaign sites.
So there are quite a few sites on my server and to penalize that is to penalize frugality and the little guy who is trying to get by.
I figure Google must actually check before penalizing for this, since there are probably more people like me wout there than there are spammers using a multi-domain server.
Thank you guys. Probably, Google should list multiple domains, even in the same industry. However, will the Google count the cross links properly or the links from the same IP will not be counted? So, I should find for each site a separate IP or, better, separate hosting, separate server, separate country...
I bring my apologies if it is considered a spam, but how can I print a URL other way?
In that case, it is helpful to spread the sites on different servers & class C's.
If all you have are a few sites, virtual IP's are okay.
An IP address is the address in a numeric form where
your web site resides. It has a domain name and that
name is mapped to an address [as in John Doe
is mapped to (831) 666-7788].
Now, the computer where the web site is hosted is
like a home. It is setup as a shared virtual server.
This means it is the home of up to 200 other web sites
ALL SHARING THE SAME IP address (i.e. the same phone line).
Now if one of your house mates starts making prank calls
using a long distance carrier and causes them trouble,
(say MCI), well MCI may decide to black list this phone
number and ALL the house mates will be penalized for this.
Now Google is like MCI in this example. If someone on
the shared IP address does SPAM, Google can black list
the whole IP address (i.e. all 200 sites get booted
out of Google index without an explaination!). The solution
to the house mate situation is to get your own phone line.
The solution for the web site is to get your own IP Address
also known as "fixed IP address".
Now there is always the slim possibility that the person
who had this IP address before you did something bad and
got black listed. But that is very unlikely.
Or you can keep on using a shared IP address and take your
chances...
Hope this helps everyone understand this fixed IP thing.
Cheers!
- Scoob
I can't find the thread but this has been discussed before. I'm pretty sure some people that post here own IP's that host both banned and indexed sites.
Also, virtual IP's can host waaaay more than 200 sites.
Cheers
Stretch
Mine over 700.
FleaPit and AthlonInside are right on the money.
Name-based (virtual) hosting is extremely common. ARIN actually encourages the use of name based hosting as IP numbers are in short supply. There are valid reasons for sites having their own IP (SSL, web hosting) but for most 'average' sites shared IPs are fine.
If penalties for this reason were a common problem don't you think we would be reading about it happening more at WebmasterWorld? If you are going to cross-link some dodgy sites you will eventually get penalised if they are on the same server or in different countries.
Hello Robert and all.
What Google does/can/has/might have done with the IP address of spamers is of course a big mistery. Since Google does not give us hard rules, we must play investigators (or reverse engineer) to come to some theory of what actually happens.
Like most (should we say all?) SEO knowledge, there is much speculation backed by varying degrees of anecdotal evidence. My explaination of the "Fixed IP is desirable" is no different.
skipfactor illustrated for us the fact that indeed, the word is out (truth/urban legend) that it's best to have a fixed IP address. That is also how I got this information... through many discussion forums and articles (but can't attest to articles as I don't have them to quote).
aus_dave is right in quoting ARIN's recommendation of sharing a single IP address for the whole web server.
However, it has been my personal experience that other very legitimate techniques can get you in trouble. For instance, using 3 sub-domain s instead of 3 full domains for sites that are owned by the same person can get (and HAVE) get you in trouble when trying to submit do ODP. If your category editor is a bit paranoid he may flag it as possible "deep linking" (which is total nonsense). But ODP has faced a lot of spamming and now they often feel it's safer to penalize a few for the benefit of the many. Much like Google does in various interpretation of spamming...
He also asks:
If penalties for this reason were a common problem don't you think we would be reading about it happening more at WebmasterWorld?
There are many possible answers to that questions. One might be: GG does not blacklist based on IP addresses. Another might be: "There are actually many people that get blacklisted on GG. What that happens, they wonder what happened to their site and the speculation begins (for those who have SEO knowledge and do investigate)." Bottom line is WE DON'T KNOW.
"If I were Google (for what it's worth), I would monitor the IP addresses where spamming sites are detected. If I can identify some "hot spots", it would be simpler to just ban the IP address and probably swat a bunch of them out that I haven't yet identified. If that "theory" holds, then you'd better make sure you host your site in a "good neighbourhood". Wan't more paranoia... I even heard that they ban blocks of IP addresses as it would be too easy for the spammer to just drop his IP and request a fresh one but it is more work to migrate to another ISP. Urban Legends? Who knows?
And since we keep talking about Google: Even if we get GoogleGuy to say "nop, we don't do that", that would only be true at the time when the statement is made (his statements are not a commited/published API, just an observation of the current practices). Moreover, there are other search engines out there that may just be doing it even if Google doesn't.
clarksc3 gives us an example of his setup where he manages 260 websites on one IP address. Presumably, he manages the whole web server and hence pretty much guarantees that no other "room mates" will do prank calls (spamming) and get you in trouble.
See, the trouble is not the quantity of domains on an IP. There can be (and I speculate here) as many is allowable by your web server software. The trouble is not being able to control the net behavior of your room mates on the server. They might be quite civilized or they could be party animals and pranksters/spamers. This means that a statement of "see, I have 500 domain on an IP and it's OK" doesn't validate/invalidate anything. If you want to look for evidence, look for one that has been banned.
Conclusion:
There is only so much time and resources I have to investigate everything in detail to identify a truth that might change in 6 months. It costs me an extra $60/year to have a fixed IP address on my commercial websites. You can think of it as an insurance policy. Given the cost of the SEO work alone, is it really worth it to save $60/year. Not for me and not for my clients! You make your own decision.
What if you're already setup on a shared IP address. Don't panic! There are plenty of people out there happily sharing an IP address with out Google problems. You might be one of them :-)
Cheers!
- Scoob
..there is much speculation backed by varying degrees of anecdotal evidence.
Each to their own I guess, if getting a fixed IP makes you sleep easier then go for it.
I guess there were indeed some solid sources to this
banned IP business...
From the article: "Is Your WebSite Guilty By Association?"
on MarketPosition Monthly, June 2003.
www.marketposition.com/mp-0603.htm#TWO
"This means that your site can become banned even if you follow
all their rules to the letter. You're guilty by association!
In fact, the April, 2002 issue of this newsletter carried an
article about AllTheWeb.Com, an engine that claimed to have
blacklisted over 30 million websites, based on their IP addresses."
The original article with interviews from AllTheWeb and AltaVista:
www.marketposition.com/mp-0402.htm#THREE
[Note: In the article, the author speaks of SSL certificates
from $149 to $350... It's more like $50 to $800. You can get a good InstantSSL for $50]
Cheers!
-- Scoob
Just a thought :)
Graeme
