About Frames and Links

A few questions about removing frames and effects

[Psmith0000]

Hi again. It's me, the admin trying to pose as a webmaster. I was trying to find out why I could find links to our website, but Google wasn't recognizing them. It turns out a number of sites are linking to our articles with frames. I was advised to use a no-frames script which I have implemented. But I have a few questions about the implications of using this script.

1. Is that indeed why Google didn't recognize these links?

2. How big of a chance is there that the webmasters of these framed sites remove the links to my site entirely if they see that the frames are removed?

3. If so, is it worth the loss of traffic, even in frames, and potential sales?

4. What are the implications of removing frames with About.com and Ask Jeeves? Will they drop our links?

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

Best,
Psmith

[FleaPit]

er... not quite sure what you mean here?! Your page loads in their frameset or they link to you from within their noframes?

If you are planning on using a 'break frames' script I can't see that making any difference to google or any other se algo, however, webmasters linking to you may be a little miffed although they would have to do a manual check and see it happening.

[takagi]

1. Is that indeed why Google didn't recognize these links?

Google has problems to index sites with frames.

2. How big of a chance is there that the webmasters of these framed sites remove the links to my site entirely if they see that the frames are removed?

Removing the frames is a lot of work. You could start adding some code like this

<noframes>
 <a href="top.html" title="keyword1">top</a><br>
 <a href="navigation.html" title="keyword2">site navigation</a><br>
 <a href="page1.html" title="keyword3">widget history</a><br>
 <a href="page2.html" title="keyword4">widget sales</a><br>
</noframes>

This will help
- the visitors whose browser cannot handle frames
- the bots spidering your site
- your ranking in the SERPs.

3. If so, is it worth the loss of traffic, even in frames, and potential sales

See remark above about <noframes>

4. What are the implications of removing frames with About.com and Ask Jeeves? Will they drop our links?

Why should they drop the links? If you remove the frames, you can still use most of the current filenames, isn't it? And the few you cannot reuse, can be redirected (301).

[FleaPit]

I think you have misunderstood Tagaki. Sounds like his links to his site are opening up in the parent sites frameset although I could be wrong. As far as google goes, it has no problem indexing framed sites as long as you set up the navigation right and it doesn't hurt the serps either. I have two sites that are framed and do great!

[WarmGlow]

I was advised to use a no-frames script which I have implemented. But I have a few questions about the implications of using this script.
1. Is that indeed why Google didn't recognize these links?

Does the linking page have a PageRank of 4 or higher? Do they link directly to your URL or do they link through a CGI script? If they link through a CGI script, Google will not count it as a backlink.

2. How big of a chance is there that the webmasters of these framed sites remove the links to my site entirely if they see that the frames are removed?
3. If so, is it worth the loss of traffic, even in frames, and potential sales?
4. What are the implications of removing frames with About.com and Ask Jeeves? Will they drop our links?

I have been using a "frame breaker" script on all of my pages for more than four years and my pages are linked from about.com, ask.com, koz.com, zeal.com and other sites that attempt to trap the linked page in a frame on their site. I would not worry about using a "frame breaker" script. Just do what you feel is best for your site visitors.

[Psmith0000]

Dear WarmGlow:

I do not think they are using a cgi script (I don't see anything that says cgi when I click on the link) When our site loads with their frame on it, it does have an option to remove the frame. The address of the page with the frame on does not have our web address on it at all. Their page rank is 4.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Patty

[WarmGlow]

Patty,

You are saying that the frame set which your page appears in has a Google PR4? That is a good sign. Now view the frame set source and look at the frame src attribute that calls your page. Does it look something like the following:

<FRAME SRC="http://wwww.example.com/" [more attributes]>

www.example.com is your domain name and it is not included within a query string. Google can then credit your page with the backlink.

Once again, whether or not you use a "frame breaker" script is totally your decision. I have found that referring sites do not remove their referring link when they discover that my page escapes from their frame. If they do remove the referring link, I would not care. I have a "do not frame my pages" rule and there are no exceptions to this rule.

[Clark]

Is anyone else shocked that "G" can't handle frames yet? How many years have frames been around? How hard is it, really?

[CCowboy]

I have a PR6-(sometimes PR7)site that uses frames. I am not having any problems and in fact everything I link to from both frame sets is doing very well in the SERPs.

[WarmGlow]

Is anyone else shocked that "G" can't handle frames yet?

Clark,

Why do you say that Google can not handle frames? I have not seen any evidence that supports your theory. In fact, Google adds some magic to the way they index framed sites by allowing the frame set document to inherit the content of its children.

[Psmith0000]

Dear WarmGlow:

Here's what I found in their source:

<li><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="OpenWin'http://wwWebmasterWorldebsite-article.htm)"
onmouseover="status='http://wwWebmasterWorldebsite/article.html'; return true"
onmouseout="status='';return true"><b><font
size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do You Know How Women Should Dress fo Business</font></b></a><br>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">As this article from XXX. states, even the experts can’t seem to agree on how blah blah blah.... Here they present that advice to you.</font><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">
<i>(<a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="OpenWin('http://wwWebmasterWorldebsite/article.html')"
onmouseover="status='http://wwWebmasterWorldebsite/article.html.html'; return true"
onmouseout="status='';return true">http://wwWebmasterWorldebsite/article.html</a>)</i><br></font>

This is all greek to me, but my article pops up in a window, without our address there. As you can see from the above code, my article address does appear over and over throughout the source. Will I get credit from Google for this link?

[Clark]

I read here somewhere that they have problems with frames, meaning they will only index the noframes portion. Sounds like I am incorrect from what you are saying?

[rogerd]

Correct, Clark, your earlier statement was incorrect. ;) Google has actually been quite good about figuring out frames and indexing the framed content pages. I do recommend including a frame rebuilding script and/or easy links to a home or parent page so that visitors don't get stranded.

[WarmGlow]

...my article pops up in a window...Will I get credit from Google for this link?

Patty,

The link that you referenced in the page source code in message #11 will only function in JavaScript enabled browsers. Google will not follow this link (see NOTE). If you would like to test this for yourself, disable JavaScript in your web browser and then reload (refresh in MSIE) the page that has the link to your URL. Now test the link to see if it functions.

NOTE: Although Googlebot currently does not follow links that require JavaScript enabled browsers, this may not be true in the near future. Google is advancing their Web indexing technology at a remarkable pace as evidenced by the fact that Googlebot now follows HREF anchors that are embedded in Adobe Acrobat PDF files and Macromedia SWF files.

[WarmGlow]

Patty,

I found the page that you referenced in message #11 that links to your page. I found another page on about.com that also links to your page. The first site definitely links to your page through JavaScript. The about.com page links to your page through a CGI script. Google currently cannot give your page backlink credit from either of these sources. This is not a frames issue. It is a linking through scripts issue. My advice is to not be concerned about getting backlink credit from these sources but just be thankful that they are bringing increased traffic to your page.

[Psmith0000]

Dear WarmGlow:

Thank you so much for your help. I had no idea the complexity of the links issue. Now I half understand it. I do very much recognize the benefits of having these types of links vs. no links. I am just frustrated that we don't get Google credit for these links, because we are trying to offer quality content as suggested by Google, yet do not get credit for many of the links and references to our website. C'est la vie. We'll keep plugging.

Thanks again, everyone out here, for helping me understand these issues.

Patty

[Psmith0000]

Dear WarmGlow:

I have one more question. If we have java script on our pages, for instance a "no-frames" script, how does this affect Google - I am thinking "not at all", but I would like to be sure I understand the issues with java script. And really, thank you so much for educating me.

P.

[WarmGlow]

...If we have java script on our pages, for instance a "no-frames" script, how does this affect Google - I am thinking "not at all"...

Patty,

I believe that you are referring to a "frame breaker" script. If so, you are correct. A "frame breaker" script does not interfere with Google and other search engines indexing your pages.

You do, however, have a serious problem with a site-wide status code 302 (Moved Temporarily) that prevents Google from indexing your pages. You also have a problem with some search engine related elements included between the <HEAD> and </HEAD> elements on your home page document. I will send you more details via WebmasterWorld StickyMail.