totally frustrated

[plasma800]

Ok, Im totally frustrated.

I run a particular campaign that ONLY shows in my city.

I bid for broad keywords with the campaign, like "widgets"

I bid up to $4.25 per click and my average cpc for "wdigets" is $2.29 yet my ad still hows in position 7 or 5.

That keyword also gets a good ctr, 3.67% or higher. The ad very much matches the keyword and is a great fit.

So why the low position? Should I just increase spend?

When I do a local campaign like this, I do know that I am also going to show against national competitors as well as the locals that have followed my way. Im convinced I must improve these positions.

[bostonseo]

You probably do have to increase your bid - if you can afford to. It's very frustrating why there is often such a large descrepancy between your max bid and what the actual CPC you are charged is.

[plasma800]

Yeah isnt it strange?

[plasma800]

Ok, so get this..

I raised my bid by a buck.. to 5 bucks per click for the keyword widgets.

My ads position actually FELL another couple of places for that keyword. What gives.

[plasma800]

and another wierd thing.

Google for the keyword [widget widgets] is telling me an average position of 2.0 at $4.00 per.

But I am searching google for that exact keyword and im always in position 5 or 6. Who be lie'in?

[edited by: plasma800 at 10:14 pm (utc) on May 10, 2006]

[jbgilbert]

Way too much ground to cover to provide your answers, but I'll give you some bullet points:

- You are advertising only in your area, but you are still competing with those who advertise nation wide because they are advertising in your area also!

With that said:
- Don't expect the click prices to be reasonable just because you are only advertising in your area -- does not work that way!

- A lot more goes into the Google positioning mechanism that just bid... a lot more.

- You consider your CTR to be good, but it may be VERY poor as compared to your competitors and you cannot find out what their CTR is.

- The average position reported by Google is at least nation wide and varies by region so don't expect what you see to match exactly what they report.

and more and more and more

[plasma800]

Well, those are some interesting points. Typically, I'm knowledgable of the google system. I just can't figure this one out.

I do realize that I am stil competing against the national compeitors, i just cant figure out why it reports 2 and shows 7.

Maybe they are showing me the positino 2 releative to other INTOWN advertisers.

And I am only talking about 6 keywords that are soooo broad. Maybe I should bump to 10 bucks per.

[venrooy]

That average position also averages in your position on the other websites in the search network - like search.aol.com - etc. You may want to try a seperate campaign. Then run one campaign with search network, and one without the search network. Then your shown position will more closely match your actual position on google and you'll be able to better judge your bids.

[plasma800]

ill try that immediatly!

[SenseRely]

Also look at the ads with a position before you, and ask yourself about their ad, how it is constructed and try some replicate.
Because an ad can be in front of you because it gets clicked more often, so the CTR increases and it gets better positions, so of course you can't use their name if they are nationwide known and that's the reason why they get clicked more often, but try to mimic their ad, maybe they know why they wrote it like this!

And also, do you use the {KeyWord:an alternative text} in your ad title? I find that very efficient since it replaces the user searched keyword in your ad!

Try everything.

[bostonseo]

You cannot figure out Adwords - don't waste your time trying :)

[Israel]

You are right, BostonSEO and it's a shame.

A year ago and for 2 years prior, Adwords was as predictable as the sunrise. I knew exactly what to bid to make a healthy profit, could predict my position easily.

All we had to contend with were Disabled keywords, which vexed many but told me they simply weren't viable keywords and could be removed.

Don't know what on earth they're thinking lately. They removed all the Inactives for 2 days and are now putting them back. In many cases, they're putting different kws as Inactive. The # is growing by the hour for me.

Israel

[bostonseo]

The whole switch where now they DO NOT disclose which keywords are inactive is awful and quite frankly underhanded/shady (in my opinion). Honestly half the time I have no idea which keywords are triggering ads and which are not. But I do know one thing - I am not just going to make every keyword broad match...even if they want me to.

[plasma800]

What are you serious... they dont show you which keywords are inactive?

[bostonseo]

plasma800,

Did you really not know this? I only found out about 4 months ago - it's been this way for a while.

Very sneaky.

[plasma800]

Here's what I noticed THIS morning.

Basically im concentrating on 2 variations of the really the same keyword.

Widget Widgets
[Widget Widgets]

and

Widget Widget
[widget widget]

I am split testing two ads.

I noticed that for var 1, i was in position 5 but on var 2 ([]) i was in position 7!

So I boosted spend to 7 bucks per click for #1 and $5 for the other 3.

So this morning, for the term in var 1, Im #1 and then when it flips to my second ad, it moves me to position 4, then when it flips back to my old ad, ad A, it goes back to #1

Wierd

[Israel]

they dont show you which keywords are inactive?

Plasma,

As BostonSEO indicated, there are now two ways for kws to become "Inactive". Many are clearly marked Inactive with a suggested mininum bid. They've been rendered Inactive despite often double digit CTRs. These often do show but probably not for every search.

Then try taking a few of your Active keywords and passing them through the Ads Diagnositc Tool. If you're account is behaving like mine you'll find the message returned for some is:

Your maximum cost-per-click (CPC) bid is lower than the minimum CPC bid recommended by the system for your keyword

even though the kw is marked "Active" with no recommended bid. These do not appear to show at all and there is no way to determine which fall into this category except to test them by hand - impossible for me since I have a large # of adgroups and keywords.

A broad range of ads, keywords and products always had worked well for me before much the way a diversified investment portfolio is a better bet than concentrating on one stock.

I'm very confused of late and I'm beginning to think the Google algo is also confused.

Israel

[bostonseo]

My biggest complaint are the terms that do not meet the minimum limit required to trigger ads - and there is no consistency.

I can have a term trigger ads 1 day, then not for 3 days - no explanation why from Google.

It has nothing to do with CPC prices. Bottom line - if the keywords are not active (for whatever reason) indicate it.

[plasma800]

i betchu at the bottom of it all, there is some way google makes money doing all this kooky stuff.

At the VERY least, they keep us tuned in don't they? The more time we spend tuned in on google, the less time we spend tuned in anywhere else.