Is anyone noticing a ranking problem on Google this weekend. We are usually number 1,2 or 3 with the majority of our keywords. Suddenly we are number 6 or 7 and other competitors that are usually very low are now number 1 or 2. Seems like everything has been reversed.
Anyone else with the same problem?
Thanks,
NF
This will be good for preventing impression fraud. Not good for people wanting to check their ad's ranking.
"Or, on the other hand, is this algo change simply registering the impressions via individual IP address, and making sure ad's CTR isn't affected by repeat searchers who don't find your ad relevant first time round?"
According to my Google stats, today's impressions are about 1/5 what they normally are. Traffic has followed suit. I wonder if G is indeed "filtering out repeat searchers."
Any thoughts?
Say, "It ain't so.", Google.
Oh yeah, That's real helpful.
Thanks a bunch google. :-\
-Dr.X
As an advertiser, my main frustration with this is not being able to tell what positions my competitors are in. Knowing the competitors in front of and behind us is key to the proper competitive positioning of our ads.
I completely agree with you. This is the most frustrating thing about the change. Now we're working blind (sort of).
I've noticed CPCs going up too. Guess many advertisers panicked and bid higher in a vain attempt to see their ads back on top (happened to me!)
I'm getting to WebmasterWorld really late in the day today - and have several hours to go still, getting the Advertiser Feedback Report ready to go.
It probably goes without saying that I'll include feedback from this thread and link to it as well. So you may rest assured that your comments will be heard by the right people.
The thread is long enough that I've only been able to skim it this evening - and a thorough reading will have to wait until tomorrow.
One theme caught my eye, though, and I wanted to briefly comment.
Paul_N asked:
And even then, how accurate are our reports actually going to be from now on? They're off at the best of times, but now!
I want to stress the fact that one's accounts stats are very accurate indeed. The stats for Average Position, for example, are just that: they are actual statistics that tell you the literal (and exact) average of your ads position for all it's impressions, over whatever date range you're looking at.
This is the same as it ever was - and I recall having said many times in this Forum that, as an example, if ones ads are showing in multiple countries they may show in very different positions.
To take the example further, for the keyword 'soccer uniforms' an ad may show in position 9 in one country where soccer is hugely popular (and thus competitive), and in position 1 in another country where it's baseball that is popular - and there is less competition for soccer related keywords. But the Average Positon of those two impressions is 5.0. That's simply a fact. It is not an estimate.
And if in a given moment you see your ad in position 1, it has never meant that everyone else around the world would see it that same position. Position has never been 'fixed', and has always varied as the competitive landscape changes from moment to moment.
One last thought:
My impressions and clicks are 5-10% of what they normally are.
If you're seeing something like the above, then it's best to contact AdWords support and have them take a look. A big change like that needs to be explored, and may well be related to other factors entirely, such as an edited ad no longer appearing on the search or content networks.
For the most part, for well targeted ads, I'd expect to see overall performance be about the same, and perhaps even better - as seems to be the case for at least a few of the folks who have posted here.
I'll check in one this thread tomorrow, and as I mentioned, please know that your concerns are being forwarded to the right team.
OK, I gotta go and get that report ready...
AWA
I seperate individual countries into their own campaign to eliminate this kind of error. However, I continually see some keywords being position at 26 at the start of the day, and finish in position 10 at the end of the day? And it's an exact match phrase, so I don't see how the positioning can vary this much. Any ideas? But this is what I mean by inaccurate reporting.
Being from the UK, I don't have the straight forward pleasure of physically seeing where my ads are (I advertise in the US and Canada), due to geo-targeting.
I do my best to isolate variables so that my reports are as accurate as possible. However, with this new algo change, and another unknown variable added, I am assuming position reports are going to get less accurate, rather than more accurate.
This is the same as it ever was - and I recall having said many times in this Forum that, as an example, if ones ads are showing in multiple countries they may show in very different positions.
But we're not talking about different countries. We're talking about one country, with the SERPs showing wildly different around parts of said country (USA for us in this example)
So in Maine where we are located we are getting #10 for a specific keyword, in New Jersey it is #7 in Montana and Dallas it is #1. Consistently. Some parts of the country we're not even on the first page. Over the course of a day we do multiple searches from different IP addresses across the country (we also have sales reps across the country who do searches as well) and on average the results are the same. I would believe that the stats shown in Adwords are an average of the multitude of different lisings from around the country. But then again I can't check from EVERY part of the country. So am I supposed to believe that the 1.6 Average position (dates 6/24 to 6/30 - this is when the change seems to have been implemented) means that in MOST parts of the country we are coming up at #1? Considering I have absolutely no control over this (short of making a campaign or account for each city or proximity from address) then it comes down to either believing the numbers that Google is showing me or not. I guess as long as the ROI stays constant I won't have a problem but time will tell on that shortly.
"Why are we in 6th position?"
Now I have to spend about 20 minutes explaining how the Google CTR algo works differently from different parts of the country. So far, I have probably had about a 20% productivity decrease this week.
Not pleasant.
Google, please find a way to exempt the IP addresses of your advertisers from this new algo update. We really, really need to see the competitive positioning of all the ads.
Is it because regional ads are being positioned higher based on IP, resulting in a drop in positions for national targeted ads?
Can someone clarify this for me?
Is it because regional ads are being positioned higher based on IP, resulting in a drop in positions for national targeted ads?
I'm just guessing here, but I don't think this is possible. Although it is possible to regionally target your ads, our market is very competitive and regardless of where we search for the ads, they come up in different positions. I can't imagine that any advertiser would go to the trouble of creating campaigns to individually target hundreds of locations around the country on a whim (unless they have some inside information that I don't). Believe me, I've had searches done from several cities and it seems as if the new algo is placing emphasis on locations where your CTR is related to the area in question. So if a lot of people in San Francisco click on your ad but people in Salt Lake City do not click on your ad, you will lose or gain ranking in that area (could be as specific as individual IP as well, but my theory is that it is regional). This would make sense as to why I am so low in my own area but doing well in other places since I do my own competition checks from the office, therefore reducing the CTR in my own area but leaving other parts of the country alone. I'd like to believe the stats that Adwords are giving me but my own data suggests otherwise.
Air Force General [chewing tobacco]: "Mr. President, the Soviets have launched a full-scale nuclear attack on us!"
President: "Launch our missiles, General, and may God help us."
Search your ads at one of Google's syndication partners and your ads should be in positions that are similar to your stats.
Don't know if this will last, or if syndication partners will begin to pick up the algo's as well.
That they would just go and throw everything into a cocked hat like this is truly staggering in its audacity. It's bad enough that they do it for SERPs, but hey, that's a freebie, and it's their system. But when people are paying for a service, you don't just pull the rug out from under them and then have a Google rep announce in a forum, "By the way, those enhancements we mentioned a year ago? This is one of them. Enjoy. And I'm passing on your howls of agony to those responsible."
Why do those responsible pull this stuff in the first place? Do they work in a complete vacuum? Do they get together and giggle in a back room, saying, "Wow, the forums are really going to light up with this one!"
Instead of "Don't be evil," how about this for a motto: "If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it"?
What conceivable benefit could there be to having ads for nationally targeted products appear in different positions depending on the searcher's location? If I'm promoting toasters, how does it help searchers if I'm #1 in California, #5 in Ohio, and #9 in Florida? And what conceivable benefit could it have for our ads to be in a lower position wherever *we're* searching from?
Apparently in Florida nobody likes your toasters...
Kidding of course, but we came up with a serious question this afternoon that I would like immediately answered. If I'm #1 in one part of the country and #6 in another, and my max CPC is $2.00, then what am I actually paying? It's a lose-lose situation either way.
Either:
A. I'm paying the same amount as usual and Google is just "deciding" to put me in a lower spot or..
B. I'm paying the max CPC when I'm getting a listing that's clicked on in a lower spot when I have the higher spot someplace completely different.
Either way there's only one way to spell that: S-C-A-M!
Either:
A. I'm paying the same amount as usual and Google is just "deciding" to put me in a lower spot or..B. I'm paying the max CPC when I'm getting a listing that's clicked on in a lower spot when I have the higher spot someplace completely different.
Either way there's only one way to spell that: S-C-A-M!
My thoughts exactly! Either way we are getting charged our CPC amount regardless of where we are ranked in the adwords listings. So why is there even a CPC? Why don't we all just get charged .05?
Also, just wondering, I have an ad specifically for a different state than the one I'm in. Opposite sides of the country (US). Can I trust the average position it's showing me here in my state? The ad is set to show in that state only. I would hope the average position would be accurate since the algo should have nothing to go on in other states when it comes to my ads, yet when all the wacky numbers started showing up in my other ads, that regional ad went down the tubes too. Anyone else notice that?
-Dr.X
The clicks are still there but CPCs have gone up and ROI down.
Got to invest more in OV these days....
Also, are conversions taken into account in this algo? Simply deciding to raise an ads position based on the clicks it's likely to get sounds a bit like the auto budget tool, which pays no attention to conversion rates.
I feel advertisers should be able to make up their own mind if an ad should be positioned higher or lower. As I stated before, being in position 1 does not always produce the best conversions, so reducing the CPC to get to position 3 should be an allowed.
Google seems to have thrown this control out of the window now.
But on the other hand, Google wants to make more money. Unfortunately, it seems at the expense of advertiser control.
I have to say, I moved from free search rankings to PPCs in an effort to escape the uncertainty of your website position, but it would appear those algos are spreading to here now.
Since June 16th, my sales in a wide variety of sectors have gone done as much as 50%. Quite frankly, I attribute much of that to AdWords "tweaking" since I didn't change hardly anything on any of my campaigns, so I'm suspicious of every little change lately.
The only improvement I've noticed since 6/16 is that broad matches seem to be matching more broadly right out of the gate.
However, my AdWords spending has been lower, July 2nd was almost the lowest this year! And I've changed almost nothing!
If they give me the clicks, they make money, I make money and everyone should be happy!
Will someone at AdWords please dig up the June 15th. restore point? Unless they don't back up. I used to work with a bunch of arrogant programmers who liked to "work without a net". No backups of earlier versions of programs, always testing in the live environment. They called it confidence, I called it imprudence. When the old programming manager left the company, I got the job much to the ire of the more experienced "daredevil" programmers ;)
patient2all
patient2all
However, my AdWords spending has been lower, July 2nd was almost the lowest this year! And I've changed almost nothing!
Could it be Independence Day weekend effect?
Thats when aliens land and eat all your customers, right? It would certainly explain things..
.
BTW, I learned for Christmas Day to pause my ads. One of the few days of years I had a negative return. Too many people just looking around to find out how much so and so spent to buy them a gift :)
patient2all
Now that the 4th of July weekend is over and we're all nursing our hangovers, it's about time to get back to the mystery of the zig-zagging Google Adwords listings. No change so far as I can see yet. Spending is up, ROI is steady, so as I've said previously I can't really get upset as long as our profit remains untouched. From what I can tell on this forum though that puts me in the minority.
I give it a week before some major calamity starts brewing between advertisers and Google Adwords if nothing is done. While I'm not asking for the algo to be changed back (although that would be my optimum choice) the issue at least needs to be addressed by the higher-ups in Google HQ. Give us a new reporting method to track stats, give us a good reason that you made this change (outside of the standard "it's good for you, user relevancy, bla bla bla"). Whatever you do, DON'T continue to try to assure us that the Adwords stats are completely accurate. Who knows? They might be, but people are not believing it.
The pessimistic side of me wants to blame my stable ROI on the busy 4th of July weekend, my optimistic side wants me to believe Google and chock it up to a good move on their part (minus the whole "independent reporting" thing) but at least give us something to work with, please...
Has anybody solved this caper yet?
How is this new algorithm supposed to improve our ROI Google!? 1/4th the click through rate surely isn't going to do it!
I think it's supposed to help Google's ROI, not ours.
And once again.....Thanks Google!
