My phrase adgroups aren't showing - trumped by exact

do I have to negative exact match in my phrase

[pavlovapete]

Hello,
I thought I'd be clever and split out the exact and phrase matches. I log in and see my phrases are not showing. I guess this is because the phrase adgroup sees that exact adgroup and wants to avoid double serving.

Do I need to add a negative exact match to my phrase.

Adgroup1 [big widget cheeseburger]
Adgroup2 "big widget cheeseburger" - not showing to avoid double serving.

Should I add -[big widget cheeseburger] to Adgroup2?

Confused.

Thanks

<spelling edit>

[Channel01]

Yes, that is the first step to take.

[smallcompany]

I guess this is because the phrase adgroup sees that exact adgroup and wants to avoid double serving.

It does not work that way. Simply think that "the system" figures which ad to show on each query that matches your keywords, being that exact, phrase, or broad match.
Ideally, if you have a same keyword in exact and phrase match, exact should pick it up, whenever it's searched for. And that's how it works in most cases.
Here, your max bid plays a big role. I.e., if you bid $4 on phrase, and $2 or $1 on exact, it may happen that phrase wins the internal auction (on account level, before it goes out to compete with winners from other accounts).

In short, even if all of your phrases are totally covered by their twin brothers in exact form, they should still trigger impressions whenever they match the query that does not match the exact match.

For example, between [word word] and "word word", on a query "word word word", which do you think is the only choice for "the system".

Should I add -[big widget cheeseburger] to Adgroup2?

Yes you should, if you want to prevent your phrase match to trigger ads on exact match of your keywords. That way, you ensure your exact match is active when it should be.

Impressions:

1. Per your post, it looks like you see no impressions at all in your "phrase" group.
2. Or... you're checking the phrase keywords, and the system is telling you how you already have keywords in other places that trigger your ads?

Is it first or second?

[pavlovapete]

Thanks both for your quick replies.

the internal auction

- a good way to think about it.

smallcompany - it is both.

Looking at phrase groups with 0 impressions, hovering over the Eligible balloon the system tells me

"This particular search term is already associated with an ad from one of your other campaigns or ad groups. Only one ad per advertiser may appear on a given page per search term. When two or more of your ads are eligible for a single search term, we show the one with the highest ranking at the moment."

[smallcompany]

"This particular search term is already associated with an ad from one of your other campaigns or ad groups. Only one ad per advertiser may appear on a given page per search term. When two or more of your ads are eligible for a single search term, we show the one with the highest ranking at the moment."

That always happens in this scenario and it is misleading.

What you need is impressions, and one of the ways to test is to use "ad diagnostic tool" - you should see a link for it at the bottom of the pop-up where you see a message about how your ad is not being shown.
Click onto that link, and make up your own keyword, something like "my phrase something", and see what the tool says.

In my case(s), I get my "phrase" ad(s) showing.

Plus, you always have AdWords Ad Preview Tool to test your ads.

Those two tools must help.

P.S.
Always ensure you know your negative terms on campaign and ad group level, plus be sure your campaign selections for language and country are what you want, including search vs. content.
I know this advice may sound silly, but in IT world, it's always something ridiculously simple.

[pavlovapete]

This is more than confusing :( When I try the Diagnostic Tool I get:

Adgroup1 Exact Ad A
This ad is being shown for the keyword 'widget burgers'

Adgroup2 Phrase Ad B
No ads are showing for this keyword

This particular search term is already associated with an ad from one of your other campaigns or ad groups.

OK so I need to add -[widget burgers] to my phrase adgroups that have corresponding exact adgroups as you have indicated previously?

Thanks smallcompany

[LucidSW]

No, you don't need to add the negative exact match. The system handles that all by itself. Although I'm not sure why only your exact matches trigger. Two thingscome to mind. I don't know your keywords but just maybe there are no searches on the phrase match. Second, maybe the system is confused somehow because you split groups by match types. I don't do it this way so I've never experienced this but I have heard of similar problem as yours. Oh, third thing as smallcompany says, check your negatives. Make sure you have them at the right level.

[RhinoFish]

try some tiered bidding, where you do [$0.35], "$0.30", $0.25

between tiers and performance, normally keeps the varied match types from overlapping on each other in an undesired way.

[smallcompany]

Adgroup1 Exact Ad A
This ad is being shown for the keyword 'widget burgers'

Do you have [widget burgers] in your Adgroup1 in exact match (check all pages if you have more than 100)?

[pavlovapete]

OK I am putting this one down to new campaign wobbles. The campaign has been running for 4 days now and I do not see any of those double-serving messages anymore.

No, you don't need to add the negative exact match. The system handles that all by itself.

Thanks LucidSW it would appear that you are correct.

Thanks to smallcompany for hanging in there with me(I have separated the exact and phrase adgroups carefully and there is no cross-over)