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Adwords Match Types-- Neither of the 3 cover this common situation.

     
4:16 pm on Jan 7, 2010 (gmt 0)

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If a potential customer types in the term "{word one} {word 2} {word 3}", I need a way to have ads show ONLY IF ALL 3 (or 4 in some case) of those keywords are entered AND IN ANY ORDER.

Phrase match, as you know, will only do "{word one} {word 2} {word 3}" (plus words on either side of that phrase, if added). And BROAD match will just show my ads to ANYONE who searches for any ONE of those words (NOT ALL OF THEM).

Broad match, then, would not be the answer and would be very inefficient because ads would be triggered for everyone searching for ANY ONE of those words, alone, or with other words, and that's a lot of money wasted. Let's try a "real-life" example so all this maybe a little more clear, thanks. Let's say, eg, that I sold "recycled bamboo flooring". Well, I don't want my ads showing on anyone searching (using BROAD search) for either one of those words, alone, or in combo with other words that are not those. (eg someone searching for "recycled" would be...garbage if you will. Or someone searching for "vinyl flooring" would also be a waste. However, I DO want to allow all permuations of "recycled bamboo flooring" because usually the customer doesn't know "the exact phrase" BUT THEY DO KNOW what they want; for example, they might type in "bamboo flooring recycled" or they might type in "flooring bamboo recycled". So I have hundreds of such phrases like "recycled bamboo flooring" where I want to limit the searches to words contained in my phrases but in all combinations (keep in mind some are 4 words so would take a lot of time coming up with (and having to manually key in) all those permuations, ie I don't want to have to enter all of the hundreds or thousands of permutations of such words as "phrase match" to accomplish this goal. So looking for your smartest, simplest solution since phrase match and broad match are obviously not the solution to this problem. Thanks very much for your time and solution.

=

11:16 pm on Jan 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

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I think you are misunderstanding how broadmatch works (or I'm misunderstanding you :P) but for a broadmatch phrase to be triggered all keywords (or similar/plural variations thereof) in that phrase need to be present. So for your phrase "recycled bamboo flooring", neither "vinyl flooring" nor just "recycled" would trigger the ad. However, searches for all permutations and slight variations of the three words "recycled bamboo flooring" would trigger it, as would any search that uses any permutation of "recycled bamboo flooring" + additional keywords.

So the following would not trigger your ad on broadmatch:
bamboo
recycled
flooring
bamboo stick
recycled can
recycled flooring
bamboo flooring
recycled bamboo

The following would trigger your ad
bamboo recycled flooring
flooring bamboo recycle
recycle flooring bamboo in north dakota

So in summary, the solution to your problem, if I understand it correctly, is to use simply advertise for {word one} {word 2} {word 3} together as a broadmatch phrase :)

The only caveat is the expanded keyword matching technology that may sometimes give strange results, but as a general rule, for a 3 word broadmatched phrase to be trigger the search needs to be 3 words or more, and all three words of your phrase - or close synonyms of them - has to be present in the search.

So "reused awesome wooden deck" might trigger the ad if searched without quotation mark, assuming that expanded keyword matching technology matches reused with recycled, florring with deck and wooden with bamboo.

12:08 am on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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You are indeed misunderstanding how broad match works.

Ads won't be triggered if ANY word matches. The intent is to trigger when ALL words are part of the query. However, as Stu points out, broad matches are subject to what Google calls "expanding" and can trigger on some unwanted queries. You could minimize with negative keywords but you may end up with dozens or even hundreds and I just hate to have a lot of negatives in a campaign.

12:32 am on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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Hope I don't sound rude or unappreciative when I say you're both incorrect.

[adwords.google.com...]

which clearly shows:

Broad match for the term "tennis shoes" (no quotes) will be triggered with these examples:

tennis
shoes
buy tennis shoes
tennis shoe photos
running shoes
tennis sneakers

(and Phrase match, by the way) requires the user's exact words in that exact order BUT allows words on either side (as opposed to Exact Match....but like I said that's not for today).

So, NO, broad match does NOT require ALL of the terms to be present (ie when DiscoStu says: "I think you are misunderstanding how broadmatch works (or I'm misunderstanding you :P) but for a broadmatch phrase to be triggered all keywords (or similar/plural variations thereof) in that phrase need to be present. "

This common misconception among webmasters / ad managers is PRECISELY why I posted this query, have passed it along to Google's Adwords staff, and why they Google's own Adwords suppor staff have decided to forward it to their programmers to consider it for implementation, as what I've posted originally is not currently covered by exact, phrase or broad match types.

The link I just enclosed is worth studying.

1:20 am on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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Broad match for the term "tennis shoes" (no quotes) will be triggered with these examples:

tennis
shoes
buy tennis shoes
tennis shoe photos
running shoes
tennis sneakers

This is true, but with one important caveat: The ad for 'tennis shoes' is VERY UNLIKELY to show in response to search queries for 'shoes', 'tennis' or 'running shoes'.

The truth is that Google will only show your ad for expanded broad match queries when it has no other, more relevant ads to display. The hypothetical 'tennis shoes' ad will not be displayed for the search query 'running shoes' because there are many other advertisers running ads that specifically target 'running shoes'.

The amount of expanded broad match queries that a given broad match ad can trigger varies widely based upon the keywords used and the actions of other AdWords advertisers. For some keywords, expanded broad match is a real problem. Google doesn't have a good idea of where to display some ads, and displays them alongside hundreds or thousands of search queries that only contain one of the keywords involved. For other, more specific keywords, expanded broad match is not an issue.

This is why it pays to highly target your broad match keywords when optimizing a campaign. In my experience, expanded broad match is very likely to cause problems with one-keyword targeting, less likely to cause problems with two-keyword targeting, and unlikely to cause problems with longer keyword phrase targeting. The majority of my keywords are broad match, and they continue to perform well because they are all multiple-keyword phrases and they closely match user search queries.

If you are having issues with expanded broad match it means that the keywords you are targeting are too broad, and do not closely match Google user queries. Negative keywords can help to solve this, but the real panacea is to bid on more specific keyword phrases.

The hypothetical 'tennis shoes' seller should be bidding on terms such as 'cleated tennis shoes' or 'brand tennis shoes' or 'gel sole tennis shoes'. Specific keywords set to broad match should generate fine results.

1:38 am on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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By the time your suggestion gets implemented - which may never happen - your best bet is either exact match, or broad with special focus on negative words.
You can also play with phrases by putting two out of three or four of your words into phrase, and then keep adding negatives while you're discovering new phrases.

For both phrase and broad match scenario, you would check the "Search terms" frequently, within the interface or by running reports.
You would use data from there to keep your negative list up to date.

Finally, you would run an ad group for exact match only, where you would keep adding keywords that work for you.
Your bid for exact match would be slightly higher then for phrase and broad, to help Google pick exact match whenever it should.

The campaign would look nicer and nicer as the time goes on.

7:00 am on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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In response to Acril, who says:

"This is true, but with one important caveat: The ad for 'tennis shoes' is VERY UNLIKELY to show in response to search queries for 'shoes', 'tennis' or 'running shoes'",

remember, I'm not saying that it's likely or unlikely (I'm not arguing the merits of broad match. In fact, I'm not much of a believer in broad match...which (to me, no offense) is lazy man's advertising (or soon-to-be-poor-man advertising). Multiply "very unlikely" times 10,000 ads (for example), and you'll see that very unlikely becomes very meaningless and very expensive. The TRUTH is Google makes a massive amount of money off those broad matches. Let's not forget that there's a reason Google (who I'm a fan of) chooses broad match as your default on new ads (a lot of fledgling webmasters/advertisers) get slaughtered early on when they first notice this, and learn "oh my god, my money went where?!"

Most of your response focused on what broad match is and the merits of it. I think we're all clear on what broad match is, and I think by now you know my position on broad match. For a well-thought-out campaign, phrase and exact match (phrase match with quotes by the way basically converts phrase to exact match) will give you the peace of mind of knowing exactly for whom your ads will appear. Otherwise, "recycled bamboo flooring", under broad will show up ("very unlikely"...now multiply that times every permutation of that) under searches for anything to do with "recycled", anything to do with "bamboo" or anything to do with "flooring". That's highly inefficient, or some would argue, Adwords suicide, esp if you have a well-thought-out campaign.

Keeping us focused, remember, the point of the post was to challenge those old notions that broad match takes care of this issue, which is posted in the 1st paragraph, namely:

"If a potential customer types in the term "{word one} {word 2} {word 3}", I need a way to have ads show ONLY IF ALL 3 (or 4 in some case) of those keywords are entered AND IN ANY ORDER."

and...

"However, I DO want to allow all permuations of "recycled bamboo flooring" because usually the customer doesn't know "the exact phrase" BUT THEY DO KNOW what they want; for example, they might type in "bamboo flooring recycled" or they might type in "flooring bamboo recycled". So I have hundreds of such phrases like "recycled bamboo flooring" where I want to limit the searches to words contained in my phrases but in all combinations (keep in mind some are 4 words so would take a lot of time coming up with (and having to manually key in) all those permu(t)ations".

As for negatives Acril and Smallcompany brought up, I'm unclear how that has to do with the issue at hand, assuming that I already know that all 3 or 4 of the keyword phrases are all critical (non-negative) keywords. The point is not to have to enter ever last permutation of those 3 or 4 keywords, which, again, for some of us, could be literally tens or hundreds of thousands of combinations. We already have our negs. We just cant control the order in which customers will "think"/enter their search into the search bar. That's why a new option is needed. I think the solution could be as simple as a checkbox which allows all permutations of the 3 or 4 words you just entered, but requiring ALL of those words in the search bar, wouldn't you agree? Thanks, by the way, for your time and efforts.

12:19 pm on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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Donna130,

I think you can stick with phrase match and look into something like the "keyword tumbler" or similar software that will take your phrase and deliver a keyword list with all the many variations of the phrase.

Problem with all those phrases is you may run into some low search volume issues with some of your combinations which may force you to go Broad Match at times. If that is the case use the negatives and research your search query report often to identify and add new negatives.

10:16 pm on Jan 13, 2010 (gmt 0)

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Problem with all those phrases is you may run into some low search volume issues with some of your combinations which may force you to go Broad Match at times. If that is the case use the negatives and research your search query report often to identify and add new negatives.

This is the reason I'm a big fan of broad match: volume
Without years of gathering keyword data through broad match advertising it can be very difficult to run a phrase/exact match campaign and achieve high AdWords traffic volume.

Obviously some advertisers have limited budgets and don't want massive amounts of volume; in that case phrase and exact match work just fine.

Broad match is often accused of being a 'money waster' that generates clicks on irrelevant search queries that don't convert. I think this is often true, but I believe its because people(especially newcomers to AdWords, as you say) are bidding on the wrong broad match keyword phrases.

From what I have seen, using the right specific broad match phrases generate high CTRs, good conversion rates and high traffic volume. Using phrase and exact match only nets a fraction of the traffic that broad match can generate.

I think the advice that is often given to people in this forum(use phrase and exact match) prevents many advertisers from discovering the huge amount of traffic and conversions they could be achieving through proper use of broad match.

Better advice would be to use broad match but to choose your keyword phrases very carefully, testing new keywords as your campaign progresses. Keywords and queries that perform well in broad should be moved to phrase and exact match over time, while writing new ads to target those specific phrases.

Broad match is the starting point of a campaign - phrase and exact match are the natural progression of a campaign.

This long-winded post is the reason why I do not believe a new match type is needed. Broad match does indeed cover the issue if used properly

Another reason is this: If they did add such a match type as your propose, everyone would use it and most likely use it improperly by leaving out keywords that could generate good results for their campaign. There would then be millions of search queries every day for which Google would have no ads to display.

I don't think they want that and neither do I because broad match also helps to drive down the cost of Google advertising space. People using broad match incorrectly and buying all of that unwanted ad space from Google means that I can benefit in my competitive niche by being better at AdWords than my competition is for less cost.

7:57 am on Jan 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

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Yes, Donna130!

That's what I've been craving since 2004. I think of it as the "positive keyword" match type or the Boolean Search match.

Why can I search Google for:

+"green mountain" +"widget" and get precise results returned but cannot advertise that way?

I'd like a word of pair of words to be part of a query that I show for -- and they need not be adjacent.

My green mountain widget might be searched for in ways that would require many, many, many permutations of phrase and exact to pick up. I also need an equal amount of negatives to screen properly.

green mountain widget
green mountain in a widget
green mountain type widget
green mountain type of widget
green mountain is there a widget

Why, I could go on and on and on....

The Boolean Search would allow me to bid for:

+"green mountain" +"widget" - I don't care what else is where in the query -- however if those 2 terms are there I want it - else I don't.

With broad:

I would pick up searches for green mountain which I certainly did not want. Sometimes I would pick up broads simply because widget was present in the query, but there a million ways to be a "widget".

And yes, I make copious use of negative phrase and negative exact keywords in an attempt to thwart the next new permutation.

Some of the Search Partner networks are even less intuitive than Google itself I can see from logs and reports.

It was once stated that 3/4 of search queries had never been seen before and I can't afford to go broad in the hope that I pick all the desired ones up.

Thank you Donna130 for making that request to Adwords!

I no longer advertise my large variety of widgets on Adwords and have found those other 2 PPCs that are out there do make some effort to strip articles, prepositions and other useless stuff, even in a phrase type keyword. Of course, those PPCs have their own limitations too....

Yes, the Boolean Search would actually reduce the need for keywords and lead to more targeted results for both searcher and advertiser!

Atun

6:20 am on Jan 20, 2010 (gmt 0)

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HALLELUJAH! Atun, It was awesome to read your post because, about a day after I completed the original post here, EXACTLY what you said came to mind (!), ie as you said (between the dotted lines):
-------------------------------------------------------
"That's what I've been craving since 2004. I think of it as the "positive keyword" match type or the Boolean Search match.

Why can I search Google for:

+"green mountain" +"widget" and get precise results returned but cannot advertise that way?

I'd like a word of pair of words to be part of a query that I show for -- and they need not be adjacent."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's clear, to anyone who's read this far in the post, that Phrase match and Exact match are the smartest way to go. No offense to Acril, but it seems like Google Sales speak. The reason Google hasn't added this option yet is abundantly obvious. I mean what's good for them should be good for us all right? So, exactly as you said, if they use it to increase search quality, why shouldn't we have access to the same quality-improvement technology?

To me the 2 "elephants in the room" (most obvious items) for Google to fix are, sadly, the 2 things in which it holds a conflict of interest: Broad match and Click Fraud. For the broad match problems, as we talked about, the problem is clear. It's

"lazy man's advertising (or soon-to-be-poor-man advertising). Multiply "very unlikely" times 10,000 ads (for example), and you'll see that very unlikely becomes very meaningless and very expensive. The TRUTH is Google makes a massive amount of money off those broad matches. Let's not forget that there's a reason Google (who I'm a fan of) chooses broad match as your DEFAULT on new ads (a lot of fledgling webmasters/advertisers) get slaughtered early on when they first notice this..."

Same idea for click fraud and Google's conflict of interest that is SO obvious to all webmasters who deal with Ad campaigns and Google. Google benefits more than anyone from click fraud and is certainly in no rush to R&D that (esp with so many cool labs, half tongue-in-cheek). But that's just to draw an analogy to the other big elephant in the middle of the room, ie click fraud, where Google benefits from the slaughter. (again I'm a fan of Google just not in these areas)

I'm so tired of hearing these nonsense arguments about "volume" and broad match! YES, you get more volume, but it's GARBAGE and it's volume that costs you your job, your house and your business by comparison with just USING YOUR BRAIN, a few great tools (tumblers, kwspyetc) and phrase match (add the quotes to make it exact) to find EXACTLY what our customers are searching for, ie the customers we WANT. It's not VOLUME that matters, it's conversions relative to expenditures, so, if anyone ever pulls you over and says "would you like some candy little boy?" > "JUST SAY NO" (right, like you're saying no to drugs). And if they try to argue "well, you're missing out on that "tail", ask them how much they spent to chase their tail and maybe who they work for. Broad match, to me, is one of the greatest scams of all time. But you can't blame Google for offering the candy. We have to take responsibility too. It's exactly like those jumbo loans that started this bottomless recession. So, don't always take the candy ...even if it's "free".

3:18 pm on Jan 20, 2010 (gmt 0)

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Broad match works very well for me. It's not garbage if you know what you're doing. I'm pretty confident I know what I'm doing.
5:00 pm on Jan 20, 2010 (gmt 0)

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And if they try to argue "well, you're missing out on that "tail", ask them how much they spent to chase their tail and maybe who they work for.

Since quite a bit ago, as we can see the actual terms that triggered our ads when about broad match, there is nothing special about broad match except that it is great to discover new keyword phrases.

Broad match works very well for me. It's not garbage if you know what you're doing.

And with all the tools we have today just inside Google AdWords interface, we don't need to know much.

One thing stands - many of PPC marketers are tremendously lazy. Set and forget is a bad habit.

Similar to content - which is (to me) harder to manage than broad match - if the homework is done - one may find that he/she can actually make good money there - after spending bit more initially.

1:33 am on Jan 21, 2010 (gmt 0)

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SmallCompany, Thanks for your comment.

No, it doesn't matter that you noticed more ads got "TRIGGERED". See my original example "recycled bamboo flooring". What matters is CONVERSIONS. What TRIGGERS your ads is what makes GOOGLE money, NOT you.

Broad conversions are rare (and just like tossing a penny--more like tens of thousands of your bosses money, or worse your own) into the "wishing well" or like "PUTTING YOUR MONEY ON BLACK" when you bet on broad match. It's the same thing. It's just gambling. Sure, you'll catch a rare fish, but at what cost. Advertising is about efficiency. Why would anyone gamble when they have a sure thing by just thinking. Conversions with thinking (good phrases) are SKY HIGH by comparison to the broad match / wishing well / oh my god, I CAUGHT one!" mentality of broad match. You're paying for all the lost poor souls (you're the next poor one) who click on your ad by mistake because you didn't take the time to write it thoughtfully. I STILL haven't seen ONE good example here of why anyone would EVER choose Broad match given everyhing I've said. To use your expressions, to me it's for the "tremendously lazy", or I really like the one you used, "set [it] and forget it". That's like turning on the oven before you go out grocery shopping so that it's preheated (and all comfy in the house) when you return (if the house is still standing). DON'T set it and forget it.

Make sure your setting is always on Phrase match. Then, for the rare times you want exact match, just put quotes around the phrase in Phrase match mode. It will essentially convert your phrase match (your phrase plus words on either side) to exact match (no words on either side).

But whatever you do, DONT just "set it and forget it". Just like those late night infomercials, set it and forget it is for roasting chickens.

Don't be a chicken, and don't get roasted. Make it a HABIT FOR THE FIRST THING YOU DO AFTER YOU'VE COME UP WITH YOUR KEYWORD OR KW PHRASE TO ALWAYS CHANGE Google's default "broad" match every time to "phrase match", because let's face it, if you're selling "vintage Hawaiian tee shirts", if you "forget it" and leave it on the default "broad match", you're going to get a zillion bad impressions (which will screw you NOT just on your conversion rates, but on your CTRs!) because they're going to show for anyone searching for Hawaiian vacations, vintage sports cars, golfing tees, and muscle shirts.

Think of Broad match as the modern-day opium of the people, and, like I said before, "just say no" to drugs.

5:19 am on Jan 21, 2010 (gmt 0)

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While I am a confirmed advocate of using exact and phrase match I have to agree with nutmeg that broadmatch can be used profitably

You should work broadmatch for terms that meet your CPA - but have analytics set to filter all actual keywords used - that way you can see which are converting and which are wasting you money and act accordingly

I would love to see your suggestion method added to the mix and don't think Google would loose that much money - even though there is exact and phrase people still let it ride on broad without any of the suggestions above

5:00 pm on Jan 21, 2010 (gmt 0)

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(NETmeg!)

If you don't want to use broad match, then don't. But it works just fine for a lot of people in a lot of situations, so you don't really need to make it out as the Great Satan. People here have been warned plenty of times to be careful and use it wisely.