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Can you have the same keyword twice in the same Ad Group?

One as PHRASE match and the other EXACT match

     
10:55 am on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I have a single keyword as phrase match in one of my Adgroups, but I'm wanting to add the same keyword as exact match so I can compare the 2.

I'm wanting to know which of the 2 are going to convert better and which is going to get the higher click through rate (and presumably help rank me higher) - can I do this with Adwords?

1:17 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Yes, I do it often.

But I did see a thread here in the last few days that seemed to indicate people were having technical issues doing this when using the adwords editor, but that would be news to me as well.

1:47 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I think the only technical issues were that when you do this, AdWords Editor gives you a warning (yellow notice) before you post - in case you didn't intend to put them in the same ad group. After you post, it assumes you meant to do that, and removes the warning.
2:09 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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This is what somebody on another forum has advised:

"The benefits of having Phrase Match and Exact Match, if you have Broad Match as well, are few, since the advert won't show any more often. In addition to this, searches for the exact keyword will be spread across all of the match types, so it'll be difficult to tell what's happening"

I'm even more confused now. So basically if I have Broad match on, there's no point at all in having Exact match on for the same keyword?

2:26 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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"The benefits of having Phrase Match and Exact Match, if you have Broad Match as well, are few, since the advert won't show any more often. In addition to this, searches for the exact keyword will be spread across all of the match types, so it'll be difficult to tell what's happening"

No offense to the author of that quote, but that is an uninformed opinion.

So basically if I have Broad match on, there's no point at all in having Exact match on for the same keyword?

While it is true that dividing keywords by match type will not generate more impressions, it will allow you to segment very different performing pieces of a single keyword. Different match types are oftentimes worth very different amounts - and the more that you can exploit these pieces by paying more for the good and less for the bad, the better off you'll be...

Good luck.

2:47 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Hi Posterboy, my thinking was that if somebody is searching for 'Blue Widgets' and I don't sell blue Widgets, - even if I'm making that clear in my ad, my impressions could be high and my CTR low - if I use exact match, then I imagine my CTR would be higher and after a couple of weeks my CPC for 'Widgets' could plummet?

What I'm basically wanting to know is that by comparing the 3 match types - which is going to have the lowest 'Cost per conversion' ... so if I had all 3 of these in the same Ad Group, and somebody typed in 'widget' would this make the Exact Match 'widget' to be displayed, or would it be any of the 3, selected randomly?

Surely, if my match type 'widgets' has a higher CTR (which you'd expect it to) it wouldn't cost me as much as say, Broad Match, that had a poor CTR?

I think I'm confusing myself now, so I won't be surprised if you are too.

3:22 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I just tested all three matches across all my adgroups. The results:
broad - higher cost per conversion
phrase - higher cost per conversion (sometimes higher than broad)
exact - lowest cost per conversion

I had someone suggest to me that I run only broad and exact but lower the bids on my broad terms. I'm testing that now but I'm concerned that my overall conversions will drop signficantly so I'm sure I'll have to do some bid adjustments the next few weeks.

3:28 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I usually use all three - I either have two or three levels of pricing, with broad being the lowest. Usually my exact has the most clicks/conversions, and then on down.

However, I have one very competitive campaign I just started a couple weeks ago where the *broad* match (at the lowest CPC) is somehow achieving the most impressions, clicks, and conversions. The average ad ranking is also the highest. I have no idea why this should be so. The client is happy, because the CPC is less, but it defies my understanding of how it's supposed to work. So I don't think I can do it again.

3:43 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Netmeg & JS, did you have separate Ad Groups for this testing, or just bang all 3 match types into the same Ad Group, adjusting Max Bid for each? - E.g [widgets] 0.50 bid; "widgets" 0.30 and widgets 0.10
3:52 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Same ad group.
4:02 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I added [widgets] yesterday and looking at my stats today it's costing me 0.30 per click .... widgets (broad match) is costing me 0.20 a click - and also ranked higher.

Will this be because the broad match version has been in the Ad Group a lot longer, so the CPC has dropped?

4:30 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Will this be because the broad match version has been in the Ad Group a lot longer, so the CPC has dropped?

Possibly, but it could be a number of reasons. I'd let it run longer - and evaluate not only the CPC and position of each segment, but also the ROI.

The good news is - you're already accessing information that would not be available to you if you had ignored Phrase and Exact Match!

5:37 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I think keywords should be divided into different ad groups based on their match, if for nothing else, then for achieving best ad and ad group performance.

Let’s say you have an ad group with one keyword in it only, and that keyword is in exact match, and your CTR is 15%.

It is highly unlikely you will get better overall CTR if you enter same keyword in phrase and broad match. In very most cases your CTR will go down if you do that.

What I am trying to present here is that in this way (separate ad groups) you’re “protecting” your best performing combination of keyword(s) in exact match and ads that are showing for them.

In addition, if you were to run a search query report, since this one is not available on a keyword level, your ad group division is perfect for finding out what OTHER keywords people looked for when they clicked onto your ads.

Furthermore, I find it easier to work with and optimize when I do such division.

Finally, if you were any serious about your campaign, you certainly want to know the stats for different keywords, i.e., ”something” in exact match vs. phrase and broad. Based on those findings you can figure if it’s worth of going further in investigating REAL queries that trigger your ads based on your phrase and broad match entries.

6:07 pm on Mar 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

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smallcompany, I thought your position of the keyword is down to obviously the Max Bid but also the CTR for that actual keyword - not the ad itself?

Say I had [widgets] (exact match) and it had a CTR of 15% and I added widgets in both Phrase & Broad match, these 2 come in at 5% CTR
but because [widgets] has a 15% it'll still rank high when searched for, even though the ads displaying are having their CTR lowered overall.

Of course I could be wrong, and if I am, this means keyword A, B & C could effect the ranking of keyword D indirectly because the ads are being effected, which seems wrong to me.

4:45 am on Mar 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Position of an ad today is determined by more than just a max bid and CTR of a keyword, that is, QS (which incorporates max bid and CTR).
It is just that I believe into ads having their own score which has CTR directly calculated in.

So much about my view onto positioning and score.

In addition, for me, it is easier to tune ad(s) based on keywords divided into exact, phrase, and broad match (groups).

I don’t like the idea of having an ad about “blue widgets” showing on “green pajamas” like you can get with broad match.

Broad match is a beginning for many PPCers. For me it’s exact. Once I see it’s going well, I go into exploration with phrase of good exact matches, and maybe broad. But that is my personal way, and I am not recommending it at all.

2:39 pm on Mar 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

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"Broad match is a beginning for many PPCers. For me it’s exact. Once I see it’s going well, I go into exploration with phrase of good exact matches, and maybe broad. But that is my personal way, and I am not recommending it at all"

I admit I'm a little confused.

Isn't it an idea to start off with Broad Match to find out what others are actually searching? For example you have 'widget' as a BROAD MATCH and you find through your logs that many people are triggering your ad by searching for 'blue widget' - as you have started off with BROAD MATCH you now have a decision to make:

A) Have 'blue' as a negative word so it doesn't show up again for that ad

or

B) Create a new EXACT MATCH as 'blue widget' and see how it does in the following days/weeks/months.

So surely, to begin with, a BROAD MATCH is the way to go, and in time you can keep adding negative words, to make the BROAD MATCH more finely tuned?

Or am I missing something here? Also, if you have an EXACT MATCH & BROAD MATCH for the same keyword - widgets & [widgets] and somebody types in widgets - will it ONLY EVER trigger the EXACT MATCH of widgets or will both randomly be selected?

6:26 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Or am I missing something here? Also, if you have an EXACT MATCH & BROAD MATCH for the same keyword - widgets & [widgets] and somebody types in widgets - will it ONLY EVER trigger the EXACT MATCH of widgets or will both randomly be selected?

the way we use exact match first is to see if we can generate a good, positive roi on exact match, if we can we start to expand that keyword out via phrase and broad.

it is just a cautionary approach we use in some markets.

7:03 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

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I think I've worked it out today. I ran a 'search query report' for an Ad Group and printed it out.

Where there were phrase matches, I either took that information on board and created a new BROAD SEARCH, or I added both BROAD SEARCH and EXACT SEARCH - (as the new broad match keyword might give me more data from similar search terms in the future)

I then moved down and looked at the EXACT searches and compared it to the impressions and clicks in my ad group.

If 'widgets' had on my print out, say, 10 impressions and 4 clicks .. but when looking at the keyword overall (when simply displaying my adgroup on screen) it said something like 450 impressions and 4 clicks, it made me realise that most of it's impressions are because people are broad searching and not exactly searching 'widgets'.

Upon looking through my logs I found it had indeed received clicks from things such as 'yellow widgets', 'small widgets', 'widgets in London' and so I made a decision there and then:

1) add negative words, such as 'yellow', 'small' etc as I didnt want them to be displayed in future.. AND/OR,
2) Make 'yellow widgets', 'small widgets' into EXACT MATCH so that if someone was to search for those again, it would trigger my that keyphrase instead of a broadly matching 'widgets'.

I went through each word in the Search Query Report and added quite a few negative words but also added more exact match keywords. Often it meant duplicating a keyword to broad match AND exact match (so I now had 2 - broad and exact). My theory is, if they match the keyword exactly it will trigger the exact match - if they add words to it, it will trigger the broad match. In the coming weeks I'll be tracking both Broad Match & Exact Match and seeing which one is performing better. Keeping the broad match enables me to seek out new keywords/keyphrases that people are actually searching for. Had I only had exact match this wouldn't be possible, by looking at my logs.

Ultimately I either want:

1) To have entered so many negative words so that BROAD MATCH keywords are only shown when relative OR
2) Have changed all broad matches into lots more exact matches.

As it's an ongoing process I feel you have to be confident there's absolutely no other variations of your keyword, before changing them all to EXACT MATCH.

I hope this all makes sense. To me, it's about tweaking things over time and in X amount of time, I'll have adgroups which are targetted and don't get unrelated clicks.

7:04 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

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Apoligies, where I've put BROAD/EXACT SEARCH I do mean MATCH.