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Having the Same Keyword as Both Phrase and Exact in the Same Adgroup

         

bigdealioo

12:02 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



For example... having both "green widgets" and [green widgets]... How would that work out?

exmoorbeast

1:56 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



That depends on how high the bid and CTR is on each of the match types. Phrase will normally beat exact if the bid is higher!

An exact match with a higher bid will get more clicks.
A phrase match will show after the exact matches, especially if your ctr is lower.

Generally speaking our best conversions are on exact matches, we have many examples of way cheaper phrase match traffic, but we cannot say for sure if the keywords would show to the same extent as with the exact match, if that makes any sense.

We have adgroups that have exact, phrase and broad, but I imagine it would be better splitting these into 3 ad groups on big volume kws because broad match can often bring the ctr down which, if they shared the same adtext, would affect the exact match.

Hope that makes sense.

bigdealioo

3:15 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Heh, no, didn't make a lotta sense.. but you tried :)

bigdealioo

6:14 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



OK, I guess, I'll try to make the question clearer.

Obviously, [green widgets] can only show for [green widgets] EXACTLY and nothing else. "green widgets" can show for any query that has "green widgets" in it.

So there's only 1 area of possible overlap - when the searcher types in [green widgets] precisely... The question is.. will that impression get allocated to [green widgets] or "green widgets"?

arieng

6:51 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As I have had it explained to me, each term would be evaluated for its quality ranking and bid combination, which would be affected by the click-through history of each. During the overlap scenarios, the higher scoring term would be shown. If all things are exactly equal (like both terms being brand new), the traffic would be split 50/50.

poster_boy

7:24 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



As I have had it explained to me, each term would be evaluated for its quality ranking and bid combination, which would be affected by the click-through history of each. During the overlap scenarios, the higher scoring term would be shown. If all things are exactly equal (like both terms being brand new), the traffic would be split 50/50.

Theoretically, [green widgets] would show... because, historically, less targeted phrase match traffic would have been weeded out - producing typically a significantly higher CTR and QS than "green widgets"...

bigdealioo

8:48 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



So basically arieng is saying that the kw with the higher QS would get the impression.

Anyone else wanna confirm this?

bigdealioo

9:14 pm on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Here.. AWA is saying that if searcher searches for [green widgets] then [green widgets] will always get the impression, not the "green widgets". But this was in 2004. I wonder if that's still the same.

[webmasterworld.com...]

Here's a thread where eWhisper tells AWA that it's actually not working like that in his account and AWA insisting that things work like he said :)

[webmasterworld.com...]

Waa.. what a mess.

Marcia

8:50 am on Dec 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"Bump" is right,! I'm just running into this with exact match and matching phrases, and it can be kind of maddening.

AdWordsAdvisor2

1:32 pm on Dec 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If multiple keywords from your account could potentially be triggered by the search query, the keyword which would result in your ad achieving the highest placement is the one which will receive the impression. In 2004, AWA was correct.

AWA2

bigdealioo

6:59 pm on Dec 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hahaha, AWA2. You just said a competely different thing from what AWA said in 2004 and made it seem like you repeated what he said.

He said: if there's [apples] and "apples" in the same adgroup and searcher searches for precisely 'apples', then ALWAYS [apples] will get the impression. That's what he said.

Now what you just said is COMPLETELY different!

"If multiple keywords from your account could potentially be triggered by the search query, the keyword which would result in your ad achieving the highest placement is the one which will receive the impression."

If this was true, then it's possible that if "apples" had a higher QS than [apples] then "apples" would get the impression instead of [apples].

That is completely contrary to what AWA said. Instead of clarifying this mess.. you only threw another monkeywrench in there.

exmoorbeast

10:06 am on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



AWAs are here to help, please don't scare them away

AdWordsAdvisor2

1:08 pm on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes, I did just contradict what AWA had said in 2004 ... which is why I added the second sentence noting that AWA was correct when he posted his original answer 2 years ago. I guess I'll try to be clearer next time, somehow.

AWA2

bigdealioo

5:27 pm on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



OK, so I guess we have the official answer now. Whichever keyword has a higher QS... would get impression.

deep_alley

6:15 pm on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



And in a scenario where both QS are equal (meaning bids too), the exact match would show?
Not that I am going to need or use this data but out of general curiosity.

Philosopher

7:09 pm on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If I read AWA2 correctly. I don't think it's only the QS itself that determines which would show but which version would result in "higher ad placement" which would also rely on the max CPC for each term.

bigdealioo

11:58 am on Dec 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Philosopher is right. But if both keywords are using the same default Adgroup bid for example, then only QS would matter.

Hiccup

11:50 pm on Dec 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The answer is easy, whichever keyword makes google more money will be used. I'm not kidding.

AdWordsAdvisor2

10:27 pm on Jan 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If the two terms are in the same Ad Group and share the same CPC, then which one would take the better position will come down to QS for that specific search query with the ad that is going to be displayed.

In the hypothetical scenario where both CPC and QS are the same, it should alternate between the two terms until there is enough data to make a substantial judgement on which term is 'better'. With the number of things being considered for QS, I wouldn't expect that you'd ever see two terms that have the same quality score.

AWA2

coreydavid

5:28 pm on Jan 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What if these terms are in the same campaign but different ad groups? i.e. Ad group A "green widgets," Ad group B [green widgets], Ad group C gree widgets?

AdWordsAdvisor2

3:07 am on Jan 4, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



coreydavid,

The ad that showed would be the one that would achieve the highest position, if all the campaigns that are in the mix had the proper campaign settings to appear on that search query.

AWA2

AdWordsAdvisor2

4:15 am on Jan 5, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Adding an addendum/correction ... if the exact, phrase and broad match terms are in the same Ad Group, the system will still behave as AWA described in 2004. We will match the most exact keyword to the search query.

jonmiller2

12:03 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Another related question: How does the Traffic Estimator handle the same keyword with different match types? Here, there is no user-entered keyword to be the "most exact" keyword. It appears that the estimator allocates traffic somehow, but I don't understand how. Thanks!

cline

1:49 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



AWA2 said:

If the two terms are in the same Ad Group and share the same CPC, then which one would take the better position will come down to QS for that specific search query with the ad that is going to be displayed.

Yes, that's how it appears to work. However, is this how it *should* work? Look at it from the advertiser's perspective. If you as an advertiser are specifically targeting [blue widgets] don't you both logically think that any search on [blue widgets] would be triggering your [blue widgets] keyword, and don't you feel that Adwords should follow your bid valuation on [blue widgets] rather than your bid valuation on other broader variants (phrase match, broad match, extended broad match)?