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I Didn't Realize I was a Charity?

Thought I was a Business

         

luke175

7:23 am on Jul 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well, Google doesn't like my landing page. The landing page that has run for 2 years and created 200k in earnings for Google.

I guess I didn't have enough "content" on the page and I (God forbid) was selling something.

So apparently I'm running a charity. I'm supposed to pay Google to drive people to a site that sells nothing overtly and doesn't require any sort of action on the users part.

Only then can I be deemed worthy to sit alongside the likes of "Free ipods!" and "Find Waffles on ebay" ads.

Like I said, apparently I'm running a charity and just needed Google to tell me so.

rbacal

2:52 am on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)




Here's the thing I've prettied up those pages, add alternative navigation and increased the user experience ... and guess what happened? My page views are up, my average time on site is up, but my sales and profits are in the toilet. I've got unfocused blob of users clicking away visiting all other areas of my website.

I know you didn't ask for advice but HERE'S the thing.

You ASSUMED that the algo being used to assess what google called quality has some resemblance to, and incorporates variables that YOU think should be quality.

What I'm seeing is people knee-jerking, and putting time into trying to solve something they don't understand (who knows if any of us will ever really understand this).

It's quite possible you may NEVER hit upon the correct SET of variables to correct your problems. Any one or two variables will only "fix" the problem accidentally with any algo of any complexity. The fix may work (we'll start seeing reports of things that "work") for a short time, or if you are lucky (and it's almost certain you won't be), it will work for you but won't work for someone else, because it will only work for you by accident.

There's no point in spending lots of time guessing.

Depending on why google did this this way, they could be including a huge range of interacting on and off page variables, including ad content, page content, keyword variables, domain variables (e.g. when the site was registered). No ONE or TWO variables will account for the algo behavior. Hence you simply can't figure it out. Only shots in the dark.

I've said this before, but the nature of complex algos is that nobody (I mean NOBODY, including google) can know how that algo will treat any specific site. You (actually google) can model and simulate the effects of the algo ACROSS THE ENTIRE NETWORK.

That's why representatives won't be able to help and are generally responding with general replies (useless), or simply seem they don't know. Because they don't.

Welcome to the multivariate mathematical world. Understanding exactly what that means can save a lot of time for people trying things that simply won't work in a multivariate mathematical world.

And, if there are off page variables (age of domain, size of account), or even keyword specific variables, some, or many of them, you can't control effectively.

If you have the time, and/or you have no choice (ie. you are really desperate), you can do the guessing.

But I think this is a time for people dependent on adwords (or adsense for that matter), to reassess their business strategies. It's too late for some, I suspect. But I'm not sure there's much choice. Adapt or die. Reduce reliance on any sole source in the revenue generating chain.

Shifting to, let's say MSN won't work either. Same problem. All you've done is shift reliance from one sole source to another. And, MSN will burp, and you'll get the gas again.

In fact, relying on PPC to put food on the table is a risk.

Above all the adwords issues, what we have is a business strategy issue. If you don't address a faulty business strategy, you'll just get wacked again.

jmorgan

7:05 am on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I think McDonalds have a faulty business strategy. They're relying too much on beef. That's just too risky.

I mean, what if all the cows in the world contracted mad cow disease and became extinct? :)

graywolf

1:15 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



You ASSUMED that the algo being used to assess what google called quality has some resemblance to, and incorporates variables that YOU think should be quality.

What I'm seeing is people knee-jerking, and putting time into trying to solve something they don't understand (who knows if any of us will ever really understand this).

Well after calling and speaking with some Adwords reps these were things they suggested in a vagueish sort of way. If they had said X, Y, and Z were not in line I would have fixed those things. I'm not content to say it's all up to the mystic gods at google and that only a shaman or witch doctor can tell me the answer.

It's quite interesting what you can discover by poking things and watching how they react ...

pdivi

1:59 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The only way this gets fixed is if Google loses the spend it had intended to keep. We'll see. If uncertainty is a major concern of advertisers, that very well could happen.

If you are managing for clients, you want to avoid the possibility of one day having to tell a client that 80% of their traffic dried-up and you -- the paid "expert" -- are not sure why.

If you're managing for investors or trying to manage payroll, you don't want to forecast that revenue next month could be X or .5X, depending on what Google decides to do with its algorithm.

I can very easily see accounts in good standing starting to shift spend away from Google just to hedge aginst giant swings in revenue. I can also easily see people working out of the googleplex underestimating their customers' aversion to uncertainty.

We'll see.

Alex_Miles

2:43 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If uncertainty is a major concern of advertisers, that very well could happen.

Well my clients are freaking. Even the ones who are not affected. In fact especially the ones who are not affected.

I didn't know this, but aparently they read blogs and forums and keep up with things I thought were a complete mystery to them.

If Google are labouring under the delusion their recent behaviour is going to 'encourage' merchants to sign up for their CPA program they can think again.

They are more worried than I am! I know theres always a workaround. But I only have to mention the G word to a merchant to see them shudder with horror.

ccam96

3:08 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Let talk about quality here. Google probably wouldn't consider craigslist a pretty site and probably wouldn't let him advertise on Adwords, but it's one of the most popular and useful sites on the net. Why not let the visitors decide what's a quality and useful site through conversion tracking instead of Google's arrogant PhD's.

Advertising is different from the SERPs. Paying for placement should not be treated the same as those who are trying to get free traffic through SEO.

Google is just trying to steal the affiliate business model for themselves. Nothing more.. nothing less. The upcoming CPA model is proof of this fact. Google is no different than the "evil" Wal Mart who ran all the local mom and pop stores out of business in each area whereby they located their mega stores.

Manga

3:58 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've only read throgh about half of this thread, but it made me realize something. A lot of people have a very limited understanding of how business is done on the Web.

For example, some are saying they don't want to register for a site to see content bla, bla, bla. Does it occur to these people that there are thousands of sites online whose business is to sell content? Does it occur to them that there are thousands of sites online whose business revolves around obtaining customer information and then providing valuable content in return for the ability to market to them on an ongoing basis? These sites provide valuable content, but you have to register to see it. It is not given away freely precisely because it is valuable.

And this leads me to the major fault of Google's system... their reliance on technology. They rely on a bot to determine the quality of a site, rather than a qualified reviewer.

Before AdWords came along the main player in ppc was Overture. Overture has always used human reviewers and if you had a site that required registration, it was not uncommon for the reviewer to ask for access to the member's area to insure quality. For all of Overture's problems it's use of human reviewers is vastly superior to Google's use of bots.

I could care less about adsense. My main issue with all of this is the idea that content should be given away for free. This concept is utterly ridiculous and you will not find it anywhere else, other than the Internet.

If I advertise anywhere else and offer something for free, I will require the consumer's contact information to do it. There are entire businesses built around the collection of this information.

The Internet is no different. In fact, the Internet is ideal for the collection of direct marketing information. People often do not like giving out this information, but they do like getting content for free. Well nothing is free in this world, and the Internet is no different.

The people at Google, and some webmasters apparently, need to wake up and face reality.

holyearth

3:58 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



ccam96,

You are exactly right......

The mighty giant is overtaking us.

LadyLinuX

4:33 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




Google is just trying to steal the affiliate business model for themselves. Nothing more.. nothing less. The upcoming CPA model is proof of this fact.

Which is laughable of Google to even consider after the way they've done "business". The affiliate model is built on trust.

Merchants and affiliates should trust Google because ..... they're what - reliable? They've demonstrated otherwise. Stable? Not that either. Responsive and offer great support? ROFLMAO.

The large corporate merchants may check it out because they can afford to take a loss and hope to at least learn something they can take back "home", but for the most part, businesses on both sides in the AM industry, having been once burnt already, are unlikely to consider Google seriously as a partner.

Alex_Miles

4:41 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Burnt twice actually. Organic SERPs?

The people at Google, and some webmasters apparently, need to wake up and face reality.

Reality? REALITY?

You know why they bought that Boeing recently, don't you?

So they can fly home every night to Cloud Cuckoo Land.

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