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How Specific Should I Be With Keywords?

"Blue Clean Mean Widgets in San Francisco"

         

Shelbesmom

5:27 pm on Apr 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Is it necessary for me to list every state, or popular city when selling blue widgets?
"blue widgets in Denver"
"blue widgets in Texas"
OR Does "blue widgets" cover all that?
Thanks!

nyet

6:04 pm on Apr 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"Blue Widgets" (quotes meaning phrase match) will cover it.

But, If, say, a lot of users will search on 'blue widgets in texas' because texas is an important factor, then you may very well want to include that as a specific phrase match. why?

if you competitor is phrase matching 'blue widgets' (as are you) and both of you are getting 3% CTR BUT you are also pharse matching 'blue widgets in texas' and it is getting 12% then you will likely pay a lot less than your competitor for the same search.

Shelbesmom

6:49 pm on Apr 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks SO much, you just answered a TON of questions I've had!

blaze

7:07 pm on Apr 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Conversely, you'll end up paying more for "blue widgets" then your competitor because they have the advantage of the extra CTR from the more specific searches.

Generally it's better to keep the broad match but throw in negative keywords to get rid of a lot of the poor CTR stuff.

nyet

7:19 pm on Apr 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Generally it's better to keep the broad match...

depends...depends....depends....

I'll have to disagree a bit. I'd say the more targeted you can be the better. If I were selling concert tickets in austin texas.

tickets

is not my best term! Even with negative words you'll wont get as high a CTR as better made phrase matches.

I would do the following:

concert tickets texas
concert tickets austin
concert ticket texas
concert ticket austin

"concert tickets in austin texas"
"tickets for concerts in austin"

etc.
etc.
etc.

Also, since you never know when Google shuts off your boratmatching option, it is a bad idea to rely (anymore) on broadmatching much, IMHO

cline

1:59 am on Apr 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"Blue Widgets" (quotes meaning phrase match) will cover it.

It's *supposed* to work that way, but it absolutely does not. I routinely find that ads aren't being served for broad and phrase match for extended terms, as in this example.

If you want to maximize delivery you've got to specifically include every relevant phrase you can think of. I recommend using the keyword tool to find all the high volume ones.

Shelbesmom

1:42 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've been dumping TONS of keywords into my ads and have found that the more specific terms I ad, the better it supports the broad match option. Giving my "bottom line" a better CTR.

bcc1234

1:58 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Conversely, you'll end up paying more for "blue widgets" then your competitor because they have the advantage of the extra CTR from the more specific searches.

Why?

If you target "blue widgets" and add a negative -texas, would you expect lower CTR? And that's pretty much what you do when you add another, more specific, keyword in regards to the original phrase.

eWhisper

5:09 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I've been dumping TONS of keywords into my ads and have found that the more specific terms I ad, the better it supports the broad match option. Giving my "bottom line" a better CTR.

Trying to geotarget areas can be difficult, and it can be incredibly time consuming to add the thousands of KWs necessary to catch all the traffic you want to be seen for.

Another stratedgy is to start with broad match. You'll catch all those strange searches you want to be found for.

Then, mine your logs for the actual search numbers. If you're being found for something you don't want to be, then add it as a negative KWs. (Along with using the other negative KW techniques).

If you are getting a lot of hits for a specific term, then add it to your KW list.

This way you can catch the general traffic you want while improving your KWs for the terms searched often that relate to you.

I often find that for geotargeting areas, broad match can be a very useful tool, just remember those negative KWs for when 'blue widgets' broadmatches to 'blue gizmos' and you don't sell gizmos.

nyet

5:19 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Another stratedgy is to start with broad match. You'll catch all those strange searches you want to be found for.

Then, mine your logs for the actual search numbers. If you're being found for something you don't want to be, then add it as a negative KWs. (Along with using the other negative KW techniques).

Unfortunately, because G may switch off broadmatching on some of your words at any moment without letting you know and without displaying it anywhere in their reporting system you may not be able to make absolute conclusions.

We used to rely heavily on broadmatching because the searches we are typically found on are not obvious (complicated service) and require multiple words and orders. Since G changed the way broadmatching works we went from 200 (or so broadmatchd terms) to 2000 phrase matches. We are adding another 800 this week!

This is just to recoup lost traffic.

BTW, ROI is the same and CTR;s are good. Also BTW, many of the terms we previously broadmatched on now contain ZERO ads. (hard to know who is being served in this situation)

[edited by: nyet at 5:30 pm (utc) on April 19, 2004]

eWhisper

5:29 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Unfortunately, because G may switch off broadmatching on some of your words at any moment without letting you know and without displaying it anywhere in their reporting system you may not be able to make absolute conclusions.

I do searches everyday for a few terms which run lower CTRs to make sure broadmatching is enabled.

It would be much nicer if G added an asterick or some mark inside the campaign to let people know that the word was changed from broadmatch to another match type.

However, with geotargeting, the initial KW searches are more time consuming than with other products because they contain a huge lists of terms, that you need to start somewhere.

nyet

5:35 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



...do searches everyday for a few terms which run lower CTRs to make sure broadmatching is enabled.

We try this too, but with 2k+ words it is impossible for us

It would be much nicer if G added an asterick or some mark inside the campaign to let people know that the word was changed from broadmatch to another match type.

I'd go even farther and say that notification is required for Google to live up to their own description of Broad Match. to wit:

"Broad Match - This is the default option. If you include general keyword or keyword phrases-such as tennis shoes-in your keyword list, your ads will appear when users search for tennis and shoes, in any order, and possibly along with other terms. Your ads will also automatically show for expanded matches, including plurals and relevant variations. Because broad matches are sometimes less targeted than exact or phrase matches, you should create keyword phrases containing at least two descriptive words each. You can also try the keyword suggestion tool and the other three matching options to further refine your targeting. Finally, keep in mind that other advertisers may have bid for the same broad-matched keyword combinations that trigger your ads, increasing your actual CPC amounts. Using exact, phrase, or negative matches can help you keep your costs low. "

Shelbesmom

5:59 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've purposely avoided broad match because of the word "blue" in "blue widgets"......it can go from Blue Moon, to Blue Cow.....to Blue Mood. Very scary to try and get negatives for such a versatile word.
Is there a program out there that does all this for you? I need a brainiack!

nyet

6:18 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Not sure I understand,

Broadmatching Blue Widgets would NOT match Blue Cow.

Both the words "Blue" *and* the word '"widgets" would need to be present in the search string.

Shelbesmom

7:14 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I was under the impression that broad match was like a loose cannon. If I put in blue widgets....I would get blue car widgets
train car blue widgets
Oh my widget is so blue (song)
and thousands of other unrelated terms. I use negatives, but it's like shooting in the dark. That's why I was wondering if there were programs out there that could do this....surely there is (don't call me shirley)...
Thanks!

eWhisper

7:22 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Broad matching can occasionally give some odd results, but its not quite that varied.

If you put your term in the Google Sandbox, you'll get an idea of what G thinks your term is associated with, and what negative words you need to add.

You need to be careful to target your broadmatch ads, and uses negative KWs, but with some KW research, broadmatching can be quite effective.

AdWordsAdvisor

7:53 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



This just seemed like a good opportunity to provide some links to basic information regarding keywords, from the AdWords FAQ - which are also available by clicking the 'Help' link at the upper right of any page in an account.

Keyword Matching Options:
[adwords.google.com...]

What are the steps to creating a keyword list?
[adwords.google.com...]

Keyword tools:
[adwords.google.com...]

Keyword Matching Tutorial available from link on this page:
[adwords.google.com...]

Optimization Tips:
[adwords.google.com...]

How can I improve my campaign performance?
[adwords.google.com...]

Shelbesmom, I hope some of these will prove useful.
Shelbe might think so too. ;)

AWA

Shelbesmom

9:27 pm on Apr 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



HA HA! Thanks Adword Guy, and no my daughter resents the time I spend on the computer, but she loves the new clothes! I will research that!
Thanks!