Forum Moderators: martinibuster
First, in order to be tax compliant, Google is required to
collect tax-related information from all AdSense publishers.
Therefore, in November of this year we’ll launch an easy-to-use
'wizard' to allow you to submit the necessary information. You'll
need to submit this information by November 30, 2003, in order to
avoid delay of any earnings payments. We’ll be unable to send
further payments to you until your tax information has been
submitted.
For U.S. publishers, this information will include Internal
Revenue Service form W-9, which will be available to submit in
electronic format from within your AdSense account.
If you are located outside of the U.S., or if you would like
further details about the collection of tax-related information,
please visit:
AdSense Tax Information Page
[google.com...]
Your tax information is being collected in compliance with U.S.
tax laws, and will be securely stored, encrypted, and used for
tax purposes only.
ALTERNATE ADS
Second, we've introduced an 'Alternate Ad' feature to your
account. This new feature allows you to monetize your ad space in
the event that Google is unable to serve targeted ads to your
page. From the 'Ad layout code' page, enter the URL of a static
image, clickable image, or ad server, and AdSense will load your
ad instead of Public Service Ads (PSAs). Should you choose not to
specify your own ads, PSAs will continue to be served to your
page.
For more information on the new 'Alternate Ads' feature and how
to take advantage of it, please refer to the AdSense FAQ at:
[google.com...] .
They have CONFIRMED that ONLY using a third-party US web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers in the US, or having your payments sent to a US post office box or forwarding address, is NOT a US presence - so if those are the only US connections, you are considered a Non-US business WITHOUT a US presence. No need for Tin numbers, tax returns etc, they'll just provide a form to declare this.Thanks for posting this, Robho. It's a huge relief to many (yes, Google - many) of us. Just wish that Google made it clearer in the first place.
How do you even know that your server is in the U.S.? I haven't a clue as to where mine is located.
Pitsburgh is in Canada, isn't it? :-)
Could you paste the actual reply here? You seem to paraphrase it.
Thanks.
<edit>fixed URL link</edit>
[edited by: Jenstar at 1:19 am (utc) on Oct. 21, 2003]
Could you paste the actual reply here? You seem to paraphrase it.
I was careful to only paraphrase, because as Jenstar has said direct quoting is not permitted. However I think I've covered every point they mention, although their disclaimer is much more long-winded...
It does appear to be a form letter reponse that has been carefully cleared with their legal department, so probably any similar enquiry would get the same response.
They have CONFIRMED that ONLY using a third-party US web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers in the US, or having your payments sent to a US post office box or forwarding address, is NOT a US presence - so if those are the only US connections, you are considered a Non-US business WITHOUT a US presence. No need for Tin numbers, tax returns etc, they'll just provide a form to declare this.However if you OWN your own US server, or have anybody in the US working with the site, that MAY be considered a presence (non US business with US presence).
Would renting a dedicated server be considered as owning the server? I believe not.
Would renting a dedicated server be considered as owning the server? I believe not.
The exact wording that counts (at least for tax) is what is in the OECD agreement I mentioned earlier in the thread. As far as I can see it is still current, although discussions are taking place to change it eventually.
In there, the distinction is whether you own or lease the physical hardware - so a "rent to own" dedicated server, or co-location, would normally be considered owning.
In the normal dedicated server setup though (like I have) I just rent space on a box - all the box. I get nothing at the end of the term, nor do I pay anything if that box is replaced with a different one, and the host could ask me to move to another physical box if they want or just terminate service. So it's a service - I don't own or lease equipment.
Note that even if you do own, there are exceptions where if "ancillary operations" only (including marketing and advertising) are on the server that might still not be considered a business presence, but I didn't look into that further as it doesn't apply to me.
As far as I'm concerned I'm happy with Google's response, although it would have saved concern for many if they had been more careful with their wording initially.
I finally got an eamil reply from a tax office here in DK, and the reply was: "You have to pay tax in DK" - what a surprise! He completely missed the point. So I emailed him back saying that I was indeed aware of that and tried to clarify what I meant. He then came back with a link to a governmental site about export and import. By then I was beginning to loose hope and once again tried to explain myself. His last reply was a link to KPMG...
Well, needless to say I've given up on him now. I'm still waiting for the reply to another email I sent out to another type of tax office, but I really don't have high hopes, although it could be interesting or at least amusing.
I think the above illustrates that (at least here in DK) it's all down to our interpretations of the tax laws when it comes to internet based work and taxes. They just don't know (although they should)!
I don't own a server I host my pages in Texas and I completely operate from India.
But I do use adwords to market my site online worldwide does this constitute marketing as said in the terms specified in adsense.
After reading re-readding I am still confused , somebody help me please :(
But I do use adwords to market my site online worldwide does this constitute marketing as said in the terms specified in adsense.
What they (or rather the US tax people) are interested in is whether you have employees in the US doing marketing etc.
Using a US service, such as Adwords, from India to do your marketing isn't counted as having US employees. But if in doubt ask Google.
I have one local site which sometimes shows ads from this country, luckily it's the smallest part of my Adsense income.
My accountant referred to something like a triple tax treaty or so, nuts!
Also, the fact that I didn't issue invoices to google, and google didn't require me to sign reciepts for the money was completely beyond his ability to grasp.
How can one explain the fundamentals of trust and integrity to lawyers and accountants?
SN
As always Webmasterworld came to my rescue :-)
Just to clarify......
What would be my tax commitment to the US IRS on an income of $2.14.........¿
I know this was probably a facetious question (and if you're outside the US, you probably aren't going to have tax liability to the US IRS at all, depending on your "US presence"), but for people who ARE in the US, the answer is that legally you would have to declare that $2.14, unless that was your entire earned income for the year. :-) (There's some limit below which you don't even have to file taxes. I think it's a couple hundred or maybe a couple thousand dollars. See www.irs.gov for details.)
Would the IRS find out about that $2.14 if you didn't declare it? Maybe, maybe not. Google, as a corporation, is going to keep records of how much they've paid to whom, so even if it's not enough for them to send you a 1099, there's still a record of it that the IRS could find on an audit, I think. Personally, I try to declare all miscellaneous income whether I get a 1099 or not. This has, in the past, included a $3.00 check from Commission Junction (lol!), as well as a $1.25 check from LinkShare.
I am in the US, tho', so it makes it simpler for me. Got income == Got to pay the taxman.
Even if it's only a couple of bucks. :-)
I know this is a little off topic, but I've heard lots of US people say they just aren't going to declare their income if they don't get a 1099 form on it, and I don't think that's necessarily safe to do in the US.
Then again, maybe I'm just paranoid. :-)
[disclaimer] I am not a tax accountant nor a tax attorney nor a professional in either of those fields. I'm just a person who's been doing their own taxes with miscellaneous website income for a few years. [/disclaimer]
JK
