Ad Blockers Should Be Illegal

Ad blockers deprive sites of needed income

[azlinda]

I'm very surprised that someone somewhere has not begun a class action suit against all those who provide ad blockers. Whatever happened to personal responsibility, both on webmasters' and the users' sides? When someone uses an ad blocker, they are, in reality, defacing (changing) someone's website and depriving them of potential income needed to continue to operate the site. Seeing ads is a small price to pay if the users are getting the information they want. It seems so simple to me that if you don't like seeing ads on someone's site, you have the right to leave. No one is holding you hostage. I have never used an ad blocker, and there are some sites (news sites) that I have left because the ads are overwhelming. There are those who will argue that people who use ad blockers never click on ads anyway. I feel that is not true, because somewhere along the line there will be that one ad that a person will not be able to resist.

[Leosghost]

So yes, maybe the time has come for an association of independent web-publishers.

Never going to happen, because so very many webmasters are busy ripping off the content of other webmasters, and wrapping what they stole or spun with 3rd party ads.

[QuaterPan]

Never going to happen, because so very many webmasters are busy ripping off the content of other webmasters, and wrapping what they stole or spun with 3rd party ads.

+1

[tangor]

Never going to happen

Webmasters can't stop what they are doing long enough to organize because there is little they can practically do under the current iteration of the web. They do not control any part of the infrastructure where "power" resides and thus band together for collective bargaining.

ISPs have that potential (fortunately each is out for themselves, else there'd be no competition and rates would sky rocket for users!).

Search engines (see above).

Content creators such as News, Big Media, and Entertainment have that sewed up already (see above).

A webmaster union missed the train back in early advertising days, pre 2000. Associated publishers might have had a chance, but that would mean establishing publishing rules to be a member (not likely to happen).

We are left with a bunch of "billboards and farm barns" called websites and very few ever rise to the stature of being able to negotiate advertising deals of any mention.

At best we have the eagerness of users to click on search engines in expectation of finding what they queried. At the very best we have the top sites for those queries. Users have a reasonable expectation of privacy and also demand respect for their time and investment (their devices, their monthly fees). When websites do that, great. When a growing number of sites abuse those expectations the backlash is ad blocking.

Internally we know these things. Some have modified their practices and done well. Some do not care and have doubled down. Some are unwilling to change and make demands. These are personal choices and should be recognized as such.

Capitalism is a messy place. One can do well if the customer is satisfied. Or one can fail miserably. Sadly, the "economic basis" for all too many websites is being completely dependent upon third party advertising. The little guy is never going to win, might not even cover operating expenses, but the big sites cut their own deals with advertisers, even while running the third party servicing at the same time. Even the big sites can become abusive (many have) and ad blockers were the result ... with the small webmaster as collateral damage.

The little guy needs to find other revenue streams to survive. That's the real topic behind the ad block hysteria. Some can't change because there are no other options. Some won't change because they refuse to see the writing on the wall. Some fear change (rightly), and are locked into a wait and see.

Ad blockers are 10-22% (depending on your sources) and while that is a number, it is not a deal breaking number.

Take a deep breath and chill for a bit. Then put the thinking cap on and go from there.

[MrSavage]

@Nick I would agree that I could be more pleasant.

The only fact, that is a fact, is that every industry will fight tooth and nail over ANYTHING that is threatening its bottom line (profit).

In terms of ad blockers being a relevant concern in 2018? To me this is the same as worrying about a pin hole leak that is beside another hole that is the size of a bus. It's going down. It's going down. I'm over that now.

If anything, the question should be why Google turned a blind eye to this trend and how this affected everything it does now. I would say a LOT of what they do now has a LOT to do with the demise of publishers showing ads (ads being blocked) on their sites. You can follow the trail back to when organic traffic started to become harder to come by. The websites showing up in your chrome browser on your mobile phone via "articles for you" are what matter to Google, not anyone else. The "articles for you" are the ads that matter to them. It's that top tier that matter. It's why I'm not going to care about this if they don't care about it. Why bother?

The talk about scraping and content theft? LOL. Go to YouTube. I see some video scrapers with say, 100,000+ views on content they don't own. That's 100,000 views worth of ad revenue that the content creator is missing out on. Obviously those content creators are swimming in money to the point they don't care about the small hole in their pocket. And as long as things flow that way, there won't be a ripple. Those content creators make such a killing, who is going to worry about 100,000 views and the most lost from that? I just don't see how in 2018 anyone can anyone fret over Webmaster B taking or using Webmaster A's content when the portal (Google) most times attempts to show what the searcher wants even before getting to Webmaster B or Webmaster A. No issue with Google trying to circumvent Webmaster A? Another way to say it? Who really gives a S when there is such disregard at the top of the food chain?

I hope everyone is having a great day!

[Leosghost]

So..you've now changed to respining the posts that some of us have been making warning about Google and Youtube for years now . Might be news to you ( or you forgot what some of us have been saying here for years ) or the penny just dropped..Either way, for someone who says that they don't care / give a S about adblockers..you sure are good at jumping in and derailing threads about what you claim not to care about..You spend so much time on Youtube watching what you know to be scraped content ? report it, to the original content producer, rather than as you seem to be just soaking the stolen content up.

[Leosghost]

There are lots of facts that are truly facts..but again, you have ignored that what you claimed to be facts..were proved to be just your ranting..No admission of you being totally wrong concerning your previous posts re "facts"..just more claims of what are facts..which are yet again not facts, but merely your assertions.The "industry" where many of us live, has not fought "tooth and nail"..instead they have assessed, thought, adapted..or changed what they do..Many of us have done the same thing..assessed, thought, adapted..or changed we they do..

[Leosghost]

I just don't see how in 2018 anyone can anyone fret over Webmaster B taking or using Webmaster A's content when the portal (Google) most times attempts to show what the searcher wants even before getting to Webmaster B or Webmaster A. No issue with Google trying to circumvent Webmaster A?

You ever here the saying "two wrongs do not make a right"..means that just because Google take content from webmasters without their explicit written permission, doesn't make it OK for many webmasters to do that to other webmasters..You can't do it just because Google does..

Again, some of us have been calling Google out on this for over a decade, they didn't wait for adblockers to do it..despite you having what appears to be a very belated Damascus moment..This is "old news"..history even, history that is still going on over a decade later, and you just noticed..?

[Leosghost]

ps.Speaking of "belated awareness"..I trust you'll be pleased to hear that Mafeking has been relieved .
pps..I don't allow scripts here, ( because allowing scripts here means allowing Google to see, via calls to Google ajax.googleapis.com etc, which IP is posting which comments when the submit button is pressed *) so I can't edit typos..my apologies to anyone wondering about my apparent illiteracy :)

*What the ajax calls etc are doing, could be done "in house" on site..and thus avoid letting Google track which IP posts which comments.

[Broaster]

I think the reason Ad block came around because it helped avoid viruses, a lot of these websites would have so many ads and pop up ads that had virus on them and were annoying.

Most people do not mind the adsense ad blacks on pages, they just dont click them but yes the spammers who were gaming the adsense ruined it for everyone these stealers also stole content and outranked and gamed the system and ruined it for bloggers as well

now Google had to create a complex algorithm to rank websites that nobody knows the ranking factors.

Didnt Adense say they will show a pop up asking users on your website to remove adsense now?

[explorador]

A lot of posts sound like ex clients of mine... having a bad idea, something that doesn't work, complain about it but rejecting the chance of considering any other alternative. That's ok, we all experience this in some way or another in diff aspects of life not just businesses, but remember the more you delay that chance, the more you are stuck with the same.

As for me: I used to write (worked in writing actually, in the editorial field). I also worked as a photographer and used to sell my work. Also worked as a software developer. All of that merged when I started working in web development. To my surprise moving from paper to the internet proved difficult, the web is far more demanding, so is the photographic work. Suddenly I found myself with lots of pressure trying to post useful stuff and get it on good search engine positions. It wasn't pretty, wasn't easy, and what I kind of hate it the most is, such journey never ends.

Selling photos was good, but then many online services allowed anyone to sell pictures, or worse, to give them away for free. I found my work stolen many times too. Writing content looked good, I did it and earned decent money, my skills were sharpened, I was better at what I was doing. But then both selling pictures and writing content proved to be something you can get for cheap. It's not easy to get someone to pay you decent money on any of those, and coding became a nightmare in my region.

More than being "a me me " story, it's about how the ship went down. Ads looked good and brought way decent money considering I only had to work really hard for a while and then I had residual income. This sucks today! Selling ads directly proved to be a waste of time (you read me well), but sometimes it was easy, easy and efficient enough so I would remove Adsense for a while due to the better income from another (direct) source. Again, this sucks today! , I can't go back to selling pictures or writing content with the same expectations, anyone will do that for cheap and not many will pay you well. My past and present skills are not something people will pay decent money today (coworkers in the newspaper are facing a nightmare, they are just writers).

Anyway among my past and present skills I see a good space in my websites traffic to sell something else, a sub-product and a new product based on all the skills I had (and have), it doesn't look pretty, many things became increasingly difficult but I'm not the same. A lot of better work and good results are based on advice I found here from old forum members. I don't loose hope, but basically instead of seeing all the doors closed, I learned (here) to see finding solutions is also part of being a developer. So to me facing a lot of things in the past looks kind of similar to the present.


As for selling ads directly being difficult I get it, but you have control and WE suppose to have friends and a network of people we know. It's not like you are going to walk down the street knocking on every door, at this point we suppose to have strategic friends or people that we know along the way. Think about it, someone you know sells something you can sell too on your website, you can offer them a good deal, or perhaps exchange for a good meal!.

[explorador]

This is just another way to look at the situation:
In most cases... a lot of people ("webmasters") built websites about **something**, then having decent traffic those webmasters inserted ADS, a set of crawlers and scripts found related ads and placed them on your websites. It brought money.

Then some webmasters noticed differences in performance, so they built websites and posted content about general stuff that can be sold. The meaning of this is many decided to write about computers so a lot of ads were about computers and related services. Others posted content about... make up (whatever). The point here is those webmasters decided to approach a niche that has a very active market (more active demand and more ads, and more clicks). You just have to realize all those webmasters did that work for people they don't know, products they don't own or sell. Get it?

Now you have to do the same but regarding people you can approach, build a similar strategy. If you think about it, this is comparing the previous to using a shotgun, and the later to using a gun but really aiming at your target. This is valid to explore new markets, or just analyze that you already know people selling products that you can sell too on your website. In some cases (if you did your homework) that's just a coffee away. And you have control of those ads and ways to get around adblockers.

It gets more fun than that, when you actually consider yourself moving to the other side: being an advertiser paying X money and getting just few clicks, sometimes clicks that don't even turn into a sale, few emails, few contact from visitors, not to mention the many times your ads get blocked on the way to the reader. Then you start getting a new picture of the situation and how to get around it.

[MrSavage]

I could start a movie rental shop or a music cd shop. Maybe that could work in a very niche and very short term way. I think of websites right now in a similar way. Finding an alternative to Adsense? Sure that makes sense IF I think my website is going to get organic traffic. If Google is still running things, the answer is obvious. Everyone knows about alternatives to Adsense but the question becomes whether a movie rental shop or music cd shop is a viable and intelligent investment of time. Further, a LOT of advice here is based on experience with websites that have existed during the "good times" and have been able to leverage that long standing. But that isn't the reality for the Adsense business as of 2018. Most people who relied on Adsense found it a worthwhile reward for the time and effort. Dare I say that most single run website webmasters can't see the long term return on investment and who can blame them for that? If the organic funnel is shrinking then seeking out ways to prolong this business model is a bit ill advised wouldn't ya say? Or would you also see those movie rental shops finding a resurgence in the future that would make investments in those business wise? Google is not going back. Maybe a "search engine" comes along and changes the landscape, but I'm not banking on that.

[explorador]

I could start a movie rental shop or a music cd shop

Sounds like fun, a dead technology and ancient market already dead or soon to be dead, sounds promising. I understand what you mean, I don't understand the approach of others (it's only complain after complain with no future).

Webmasters, remember the threads about Adsense Axiety? checking the stats and earnings daily? several times per day? I went offline on that a while ago, then I forgot about Adsense (still runs on my websites and still makes money, quite little but still valid, and NO it's not on all my websites. I got sick of many things regarding websites, being a webmaster, etc. I needed vacations. Suddenly found myself working with wood to build stuff and also deal with real-life challenges (things you can actually touch). The change has been something wonderful that heals my brain, surprisingly some things got some people attention and some people bought it. That's part of why I see this is not the end, just like most other things if you can make something and get someone to buy it, from there you can play with exposure: trying to reach more people.

In my case I started seeing the unhealthy side of things before seeing the low income I'm seeing now. That's just my case.

[Leosghost]

There are children making 5 figure incomes monthly on youtube with videos about "unboxing their toys"..there are people making money and or enjoying what they do and leading fulfilling lives ( many of them not web dependent, and many of those who have websites not worrying about "organic SERPs )..the BBC runs articles almost every week about them..Last week it was this woman..started with $500..00 and pregnant, made a billion dollar business, by looking for what was missing, a nich that was not being served, a different way of thinking..
[bbc.com...]
Others would rather make straw men who might open movie rental shops ,or CD shops, or put words into the mouths of others, or assume ( totally incorrectly ) that others websites were established for years, or rant and whine*, or look for some one to ban ( make illegal adblockers ) ..you can lead a horse etc, and there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Good to hear that you are making things with your hands explorador, that is what hands are for, not for counting adsense money :)

*There is apparently a market for cheese aimed at webmasters who placed all their business eggs in Googles basket

[trebuchet]

This thread seems to be littered with sarcasm, patronising commentary and a lack of respect. Probably not surprising.

The Adsense model is dying and probably close to death. That's been discussed here ad nauseum and I think most sensible people are in agreement. It doesn't mean we can't milk the cow a little more before it keels over. It certainly doesn't mean that content won't have value in the future. The trick is how to extract value from your content, preferably without relying on the likes of Google. I think I have found a way and others will have to find theirs.

@explorador It's always good for webmasters to get away from the screen and regain some sense about what they do. I spend a day a week teaching in my field of expertise and look forward to it immensely. The cycle of content creation, publishing, website management and revenue hunting can skew your perspective, if you let it.

[Leosghost]

This thread has those who have already found or who are trying to find alternatives to 3rd party ads on their websites, trying to get the other participants in the thread ( and most importantly any readers / lurkers ) to look for alternatives, not to be defeatist. Complaining that the web has changed, and browsers have adblockers as "options" or "built in" does not put bread on the table.
Demanding that adblockers be made illegal may be cathartic, but is totally impractical ( whose laws would apply, which countries ?, and to visitors from which countries ) , the content of some sites is in itself illegal in others.

Solutions "how to block the people who use adblockers" have been presented, linked to, alternative revenue methods suggested.

Surprising is that you think "respect" is automatic, it is something which is earned. it is not given to someone who says that they want to treat your use of adblockers as a criminal offence, thereby saying in effect, that to them you are a criminal.

[MrSavage]

I'm sure the guy who owns the last movie rental shop in my city feels the same way. I'm sure he's as equally optimistic in his venture. Nobody wants to feel like they put time, money and effort into something that has no real future. He has reason to be optimistic. The web could go away. Our devices could be harmful to our health as it turns out and people could revert back to business models and products that made sense yesteryear.

But the original idea of caring about the legalities of adblockers is so far from relevant these days, I'm just asking who could possibly be worrying about revenue loses from blocked ads when the ability to get found via "search" is declining with each passing day. Creating better content in hopes of bucking the trend? Right. It makes that #1 spot that's under 5 mobile ad blocks (taking up a 3/4 of a page each) is so worth it. And doing this without Google? I recon that's like the attitude of the movie rental shop guy. He's sure there is a way to the promised land because in each city there is someone who shares his story! If a person in each city is doing it, then heck, it's a sure thing and it obviously can and does work!

Have a great day everyone!

[tangor]

Movie rentals v Adsense

How do these equal one another? Movie rental places can still exist (if not for YT, Hulu, Netflix and every broadcaster out there), but that requires CUSTOMERS.

Your visitors are VISITORS, LOOKIELOUS, WINDOW SHOPPERS... they are not customers, UNLESS you can make them one. That's the tricky part.

Pasting third party code on a pig with lipstick will earn as many bucks as that pig will in a beauty pageant. Not being flip, merely realistic.

Nothing remains the same. Those changes are inevitable--and IMO--necessary. Having the long view, and the ability to look down the road by looking at past history (pick a business, any business, since Methuselah was a Pup) and see the future with 20/20 vision. THINGS CHANGE.

When markets become saturated with copy cat and/or low quality one should never be surprised when the "customer" moves on to something else.

The incredible plethora of websites all scraping each other into dilution duplicate hell can there be any wonder the "customer" is being more choosy, or that g (and others) try to present the best of a bad deal possible?

If you ask me, ad blockers came too late to solve the actual problem:

Not every Tom, Dick, Harry, or Jane should feel entitled to throw up (as in vomit) a website to hang ad codes on thinking their fortune has been guaranteed just because they have a site.

The gold rush part of the web was 1998-2005 and has been going down hill ever since (as far as third party advertising is concerned). Too man6y players, two little competition re the ad servers, and advertisers stepping back and corralling ad budgets because the ROI was not there. (BTW, they have NEVER been your friend or business partner, they exists to make money off YOU).

The web itself still works remarkably well. Some folks actually make fortunes, a few make several fortunes at a time, and that will probably continue ... just like radio, tv, newspapers (print media) remain in service and OF service. Each of those legacy "distribution points" had their teething problems, worked out years ago, but the web is still in "infancy", and so far, is outside regulation or legislation. That's coming next and if one is not ready, then katy-bar-the door, this ad blocker horror will seem like a Sunday picnic.

As for the sarcasm, most of it is a breath of fresh air and indicates we are "not dead yet". Ad hominem, on the other hand, is never desired.

[nomis5]

Ad blockers should be illegal? Rubbish, it's not practical. Search for another solution.

Suddenly found myself working with wood to build stuff and also deal with real-life challenges (things you can actually touch). The change has been something wonderful that heals my brain, surprisingly some things got some people attention and some people bought it.

I enjoy my website because it deals with my hobby. And that hobby involves growing food using manual effort and a small amount of intelligence and imagination. It also keeps me fitter than I would be otherwise. Best of both worlds. And if Ad blockers really destroyed my revenue stream, I would still keep updating my website and still keep enjoying my hobby.

[explorador]

About the thread: I have a long term memory on how other threads developed in this forum, this one IMHO got out of hand and quite off topic, I understand the issue but while there is context for illegalities... it's not going to happen. One of the biggest benefits of websites-HTML is also one of it's weaknesses (pure text anyone can intercept). perhaps at some point there is hope on SSL or something alike, that certain changes go too far intercepting and changing your content? SSL is not free everywhere or in every case, yet it's easier to go SSL for free today, something else perhaps holds the key.

As for the movie rental guy can't say that I disagree, I do see the point and can even put myself there and think of me in such experience. But... my own logic comes in place and tells me it's more an emotional argument than a logical or business-like argument, "was the guy living under a rock?", didn't he see the changes all around the world? people going digital? less and less rentals? it took time, I was one guy refusing to pay online and enjoyed going to the rental for VHS then DVD's, to me it was more than movies, it was a place where the whole store served as a place to meet people with similar interests, you could even figure out many things just by looking what areas of the store people visited. I believe the same happened to Adsense, we've been looking at the signs for years, can't afford to sit and wait, worse given the fact Google doesn't give a bit as long as they earn money (and they do, more than us).

I believe Google takes a hit, yes, but Google already figured out the users and webmasters already fell into the trap of struggling, so in many ways it's the webmasters who struggle to adapt and serve google, you can't deny this is happening.

@trebuchet, thanks, such changes helped me to keep my mind sane, after all I need my mind to keep on working, specially on the web, it's been a nice change. At some point I was only thinking on earnings via ads, freelance work or selling someone else products. It was in front of my that I stopped considering selling my stuff, after all I know my numbers (web traffic). If you think about it is a negative effect of our own brains closing to possibilities.

[Dimitri]

Ad Blockers Should Be Illegal

It doesn't seem to be the trend, and worse, they are becoming to be legit [webmasterworld.com...]

[Broaster]

like leosghost said many spammer made of adsense websites stealing content did this, all the honest webmasters have to suffer now it sucks because of these rotten apples.

[Broaster]

Dimitri
It seems more and more browsers are using ad block, how is a website going to earn money now,when nobody can see their adsense ads or their direct sold ads?

This why people tell me youtube is the only way to make money now from adsense, because the basic ad blockers dont black the video ads that play in video.

[Dimitri]

Dimitri
It seems more and more browsers are using ad block, how is a website going to earn money now,when nobody can see their adsense ads or their direct sold ads?

I don't know.

Direct ads, might still escape ad blockers. In that case, you might need to avoid using common banner sizes (in case of creative ads).

All this is playing the game of big sites, as usual. Facebook and Google can survive the ad block era, because they are big enough, whereas small publishers will disappear, and so making big sites again more big.

As it was said, you still have subscription based sites, but this is not something which is possible for a lot of small sites.

[Broaster]

Dimitri
A lot of these new ad blockers are now blocking direct ads, I noticed when my Mozilla browser was installed by default it had the ad block on, most people dont bother with settings, so all those people are loss revenue and there has to be millions.

Another thing is the ad block even blocks plug ins from wordpress, I had a social media plug in that shows the social media icons underneath posts and it blocks it weird.

Facebook doesnt have to worry since they can pretty much override anything and show any ad they want on their platform, google well they make 100 billion or more a year from Adsense, and most of the adsense goes to spammy youtubers with clickbait, they really cracked down on websites and made it hard for us to earn a living but for some reason they allow these useless videos that really dont provide any of the advertisers any converted customers to earn big bucks.

I saw some click bait channel reaction video on youtube who had 10 ads on one 11 minute video, he had over 100 thousand views already, and I doubt if anyone clicked those ads they bought something or used the service.

when people go on websites and search online I heard those visitors who go there go to a website for a reason and if they click on an ad they are more likely to convert over as a customer as opposed to some kid who clicks an ad on a youtube video.

[Dimitri]

Yes, I agree with all what you are saying. And add to this the brand safety ...

The only little hope, is that, when you use Google Chrome in private mode, it disable all plug ins , so it disable ad blockers, so may be , one day, Google will push users to use the private mode, for their "safety". (the private mode of Firefox blocks ads, even without external plugins)

[Demaestro]

Somethings to consider

Adblockers work for massive distributed networks of advertisers.
-- You are more than welcome to suss out your own advertisers, make deals with them individually and build an ad system that doesn't track users and is naturally embedded in your content. These would be ignored by adblocker if done correctly. I suspect you would rather just use a distributed ad network and "set it and forget it" allowing ads for a range of non-related topics from infowars to hurricane relief funds. Many popular YouTube content creators have moved to this model, where by they have the ad embedded in the content, usually with some blurb about "the video is sponsored by [sponsor name]" These can not be blocked by adblocker.

The advertisers track your activity across all sites that use them.
-- Whether or not you will admit it, many people use adblockers in an effort to not be tracked, more than not be burdened with ads.

Ad networks have been compromised.
-- Many virus, trojans, and other malicious things have been distributed via these ad networks. You as an the operator of the site don't know what ads I will see, nor can you say if they are safe.

Putting your revenue eggs in one basket
-- Ad networks can cut you off in an instant, you have no guarantee they will show, and you have little recourse if your site or content is deemed not worthy. Reliance on these networks for your revenue is dangerous at best. Can you imagine a TV network that would allow the commercials to be blocked?!?! They would never build it to work that way. Yet you have built your website to work that way and you are calling the people taking advantage of your unwillingness to take control of it yourself criminals.

Summary, don't be lazy! Don't rely on massive distributed ads networks for revenue. Take control of your own destiny! If you can't sell ads yourself, then your site isn't worthy of having them anyways and your revenue is likely nothing. Yes it is work, but it is better than redefining what theft is and trying to limit the freedom people have.

This post brought to you by freedom [<---- note that this ad can not be blocked.... except by a mod lol]

[Broaster]

Dimitri

yeah firefox by default on that private mode will block ads.

I was wondering whatever happened tot hat google release recently where they said they will try and post a pop up asking visitors to remove their ad blocker?

I think adsense was trying to find a way around it, because it also hurts them more they make billions off adsense and more ad blockers dig into those billions affecting everyone else.

[Dimitri]

But a the same time, ad blockers are killing small publishers, and potential concurrents of Google (Facebook, and the other big names). So Internet Giants are also finding an interest in ad blockers. Like being said, they can always find work around to serve ads at their owner sites.

[IanCP]

I'm surprised this thread still has a life.

For me the question remains that it isn't about making ad blockers illegal, it is about making advertisers and certain site owners conform to the expectations of their site visitors - your valuable guests..