Page Views and/vs Earnings

over 400,000 page views returning pennies

[TheTAZZone]

To start with I am by no means an expert on any level of webmastering, SEO, keywording, etc...in fact I don't even bother with it. Like most people I put up a site, post, and let the winds blow where they may. So...NO...my site has not been purposely optimized/stuffed/or whatever and that could be one of the reasons behind my extremely low return on my investment.

But I was curious as to how much my site should be returning ( after 6 years ) so I Googled and found some info including this thread:

[webmasterworld.com...]

It was an old thread so I didn't want to post in it, as a forum admin myself I know most sites don't like you reviving old threads. Even if they're relevant to your question.

From what I've been able to gather, through Googling, a site that is getting 400,000 page views a month should be returning about 600-700 dollars a month. According to my host stats my main site gets about 400,000 page views a month and returns a revenue of less than 0.1% of that. My combined sites which total about 1 million page views a month ( according to my host stats ) returns a revenue of less than 0.15% of that.

To give you some info:
My sites are all about 6 years old
combined traffic of approximately 1 million page views a month
topics involve original computer, security, hacking, photoshop tutorials; music, games, and commentary

Question 1: Why does Adsense page view stats only reflect a fraction of my actual pageviews?
Question 2: Why are my earnings a fraction of what others are earning ( or claim to be earning )
Question 3: What can I do to correct this?

thank-you,
TAZ

[londrum]

what do the stats matter anyway. the traffic isn't converting into money... so it's lousy traffic. who cares how high the number is. i think you are much too focused on increasing your traffic numbers, without thinking about what type of traffic you are attracting.
you could probably increase your earnings easy, even with half the traffic, if the users were actually intending to spend some money. at the moment they are not. they are just after free stuff. that is your problem (probably).

forget about just increasing your traffic numbers, and focus on trying to change the type of traffic you're getting to people who actually want to buy something. and if your traffic has to go down a bit to get them, so what. it's the earnings that matter. that's why you started this topic.

[TheTAZZone]

Hi londrum,

As I replied to your earlier post on this matter " Makes sense ". It isn't that I'm concerned about traffic, it seems a few people here are focusing on that aspect of it, not me, I am just responding to them. I am using traffic merely as a benchmark. For instance, if I was to say I get 15,000 page views and I'm making 3 cents a day, the average response would be ' not enough traffic '...so I stated the traffic to eliminate that from the equation, that traffic itself likely isn't the problem.

Then you pointed out what the problem could be, once traffic was eliminated. I have the traffic, I don't have the revenue that one would expect from that amount of traffic.

I think, as I said before, you're probably right...my site just doesn't cater to the spending public...it caters to people looking for free stuff, or stuff to do for free.

Suggestions on how to correct this, based upon what my site is about?

Thank,
TAZ

[netmeg]

Well, no. You've probably pretty much exhausted the amount of generalized help you can get here (or should expect) You've gotten some actionable advice in this post; probably should spend some time on that first.

[TheTAZZone]

Hi netmeg,

This being a ' webmaster ' forum I was expecting a bit more than just ' generalized ' help. I came to this forum expecting to learn from the ' masters '. So far, to be honest, with the exception of londrum, the advice I received I could have gotten from my own forum members, posting in my own forum, from other non-experts, like myself, in the field of website management.

No offense intended, I'm just outspoken, but there's a fundamental difference between identifying a problem and an actionable solution.

So I think, from my perspective anyways, I expected a lot more...from ' experts ' , than generalized forum chatter.

Or am I way off base assuming this site ' Webmaster World ' has experts in the field of website management? Did I jump to a false conclusion? There's nothing to learn here?

I am far too old to play games or beat around the bush...if you ' the experts ' have something to teach me I'm very willing to listen and learn.

Thanks,
TAZ

[londrum]

Suggestions on how to correct this, based upon what my site is about?

dont write about free stuff, simple.

if you're unwilling to change your subject matter, and write in a way that entices people to buy something, then your site is never going to be a good fit for adsense, however much traffic you attract.

[Leosghost]

Or am I way off base assuming this site ' Webmaster World ' has experts in the field of website management? Did I jump to a false conclusion? There's nothing to learn here?

Those of us who know what you don't..get paid to tell it to those who don't..there is a limit to what one gives away in fora for free..general advice is free..specific site advice is paid for..pro webmasters know that..good luck :)

[netmeg]

Actually this forum does not deal in specifics by design; we're already slightly over the line just in referring to your site specifically. You can get site reviews in the supporters forum (by signing up as a paid supporter) but in general, WebmasterWorld only discusses things in terms of generalities; it's specified in the terms of service.

There's a TON of material in this forum, going back years (very useful) that you could read through, but it's a tad unrealistic to expect specific (new) advice from people who have been posting, over and over, on the same subject for years (note the number of posts under each users name) and who, in some cases, may even be one of your competitors. That's one reason why the WebmasterWorld TOS specifically calls for general discussions. Moreover, nobody gets paid for contributing here.

There's lots to learn here, but each of us has had to do the work ourselves, and extrapolate from what's here. If that's not what you're looking for, then it's probably not a good resource for you.

(Leo slipped in while I was writing this)

[Leosghost]

I would also add to what netmeg wrote..

Asking for specific detailed information on how to make your site make more money for you, and expecting to get it for "free", and then denigrating WebmasterWorld and the competence and experience of it's membership, because you didn't get it "free"..is at best "ironic" ..

[TheTAZZone]

Hi londrum,

I may have to do that by the looks of it.

Hi Leosghost,

I am a forum admin as well, and we give specific advice to those experiencing security problems all the time, and we don't get paid for it either. We certainly do not withhold information that can help someone. Otherwise what would be the point in our even having a forum. If your purpose is to ' sell ' your expertise then you should build a website. Not sell your services in a forum, or only offer limited generalized help. What point do you have even being in this community if you're not here to help, or be helped?

Hi netmeg,

You're probably right. this site likely isn't a good resource if the only access people have is to vague and generalized information and the members are reluctant to offer real actionable assistance without complaining about getting paid. I would research the earlier posts however you've already stated that they too follow the vague and generalized rules of this forum.

Perhaps one day you'll understand why people create forums, to help others, like we do on our forum. If you run into a virus or trojan or other security or malware problem we will gladly help you, we don't get paid either, and we won't withhold or limit the help we are able to offer you.

Do appreciate the conversation though. No sarcasm intended.

Best of Luck,
TAZ

[Leosghost]

I don't take clients..nor do I sell , nor tout my services here..that is not what this place is for..nor how I am ;-), as to why I'm here..read the 5000 odd posts I made over the last 8 years, before you came looking for free "specific help to make you more money, via adsense on your site"..and you then began denigrating this forum and it's members, when you did not get free specific help here..

Btw..this site WebmasterWorld, doesn't even run adsense..and I suspect, nay know, that it has helped far far many more people over the years than yours has..

[TheTAZZone]

Please Leosghost, I have no desire to turn this into a ' whose is bigger ' thread. I was asking for advice, was told the advice I would receive would be vague and generalized.

Did I make a false statement?

TAZ

[Leosghost]

I have no desire to turn this into a ' whose is bigger ' thread.

so why post this ..

Hi londrum,

I may have to do that by the looks of it.

Hi Leosghost,

I am a forum admin as well, and we give specific advice to those experiencing security problems all the time, and we don't get paid for it either. We certainly do not withhold information that can help someone. Otherwise what would be the point in our even having a forum. If your purpose is to ' sell ' your expertise then you should build a website. Not sell your services in a forum, or only offer limited generalized help. What point do you have even being in this community if you're not here to help, or be helped?

Hi netmeg,

You're probably right. this site likely isn't a good resource if the only access people have is to vague and generalized information and the members are reluctant to offer real actionable assistance without complaining about getting paid. I would research the earlier posts however you've already stated that they too follow the vague and generalized rules of this forum.

Perhaps one day you'll understand why people create forums, to help others, like we do on our forum. If you run into a virus or trojan or other security or malware problem we will gladly help you, we don't get paid either, and we won't withhold or limit the help we are able to offer you.

You came looking for advice ..you got it..you then complained that it was not detailed and specific enough to make you more money than you currently make..

Here we discuss how best to catch fish..it helps us become better fishermen and women.. we do not catch fish for you..

btw..londrum's comment..

dont write about free stuff, simple.

could have come from anyone of us ..I suspect no one else made it because it is so blindingly obvious to any or all of us, that we thought it would be so to you too..

It is not just about the traffic numbers, it is also about the type of traffic..people looking for "free", don't want to pay, nor do they click ads..unless the ads are offering "free", and the clickers are naive..

[TheTAZZone]

Leosghost, I would respond but we both know where that we lead so let's just agree to disagree.

Thanks,
TAZ

[netmeg]

I said it wasn't a good resource for YOU. It's more than a good resource for me and others who happily fork over our $150 subscriptions every year.

Good luck with your site.

Bill, we can probly close this thread.

[StoutFiles]

original computer, security, hacking, photoshop tutorials; music, games, and commentary

Those topics don't have high paying ads, notr do they have high click thru rates.

[TheTAZZone]

Thanks StoutFiles.

TAZ

Hi netmeg,

You're probably right, this forum is likely an excellent resource for those willing to pay. In fact I might have been one of those willing to pay, assuming that I was satisfied with the help I received. Unfortunately the help I received does not encourage me to do so.

TAZ

[netmeg]

Wow. You *still* don't get it.

Never mind. I'm done.

[matrix_jan]

@TheTAZZone

Something is not right with your numbers. Assuming you receive no click at all, CPM only would have brought $100 easily. Let's put all the "what if"/"why this"/"why me"-s and look at the numbers. If you think something is really wrong with your website then post your adsense stats: pagevies, ad impressions, cpc, and rpm. Again, adsense stats not website analytics... Without having actual numbers talking about how and why is just waste of time.

What guys were saying is that if it's not an issue concerning general public (meaning other webmasters), and it's an issue with only your websites, then it's not on the WW discussion level. The point of WW is to provide sollutions to problems in which others have gotten or may get. Capisce? ;)

Cheers

[netmeg]

It's against AdSense TOS to post some AdSense CTR, so I wouldn't post that.

[TheTAZZone]

Hi matrix_jan,

I posted some stats on the other page. But, like netmeg said I'd rather not post any Adsense stats to avoid any issues.

I do understand what you're saying, but I think this falls into that category, as I'm relatively sure that I would not be the only one experiencing this problem, so it wouldn't be specific to my site.

Thanks,
TAZ

I think londrum and StoutFiles correctly pointed out what likely is the problem. And I guess the only solution I'm going to get here would be to change the focus of my content.

I was hoping to find another solution.

Appreciate the conversation. Always good to bounce things around from a fresh perspective.

Thanks,
TAZ

[Webwork]

returning pennies

Traffic quality (commercial intent of site visitor/clickers (read EFVs posts), ad-related data (#, placement, "compelled clicks", etc.) demographic data (direct/inferred: country, age, wealth, etc), on site behavior data (exit rate, exit page, bounce, etc), visitor source data (search, qualities of search query, IBLs), site quality data (forum? (meh), hand review, editorial attributes of IBLs, etc.), # of other similar sites throwing off similar data / attracting similar visitors + conversion rate (advertiser data, bids, exclusions, etc.) ~smart pricing = "pennies"

Lots of variables, many more than I've referenced. Lots of pageviews are nice but I suspect the qualities of your site(s) and your visitors may not match those, of say, the Mayo Clinic.

Improve the quality of whatever you can. Quality product or service rarely comes cheap.

[TheTAZZone]

Hi Webwork,

Up until very recently I had no commercial interest/intent in any of my sites. In fact one of my by-lines was ' Selling you nothing since 2005 '...and ' Ad-Free Game Play and an Ad-Free Forum Community '. ie. All the games would ( and still do ) go straight to the swf file and not a HTML page ( as a result my pageviews are actually much higher than stated because the games themselves aren't tracked by Quantcast and the host lists them as hits not pageviews - ie. if 10,000 people play a game 10 times each because it's a swf file and not a page it doesn't get counted as a pageview ). And because I had no commercial interest I didn't care about SEO, Keywords, commercially viable content, etc...

recent financial troubles are making me look to my sites as potential revenue sources. So, yes, I would agree, the commercial quality of my sites is sadly lacking.

Thanks,
TAZ

I suppose I should do what other sites do and go back and embed the games in HTML pages, surround them with ADS, track them, etc...but that would completely change my users experience.