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CTR, visitor rejection of google

..and what we are doing

         

coachm

3:24 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

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Just updating some other posts of mine. After perusing the $10 Of total income from yesterday, and looking at CTR, here's the thing.

When 99.5 percent of our visitors do not click on google ads I have to interpret that as an almost total rejection of their existence on our sites. They add no value to our visitors, and so they are ignored, and add no value to us as a business.

In fact, if anything they send an image of our business that may affect our sales. That never happened before, when we were getting ctr at a 5-6 times higher rate, which was not only profitable but indicated the ads has some attraction.

The truth is that the better the quality of our sites, the worse the CTR is. I'm not going to continue to have poor quality pages to increase CTR, not only because it embarrassed me to have some crappy pages, but also because it makes us look stupid.

I've experimented with almost every variable over which I have control, other than putting more ads on our pages.

If the price of adsense success is to churn out lousy sites a dime a dozens, I'll leave that task to those who choose that route.

So what are we doing? Adsense is still a major source of income for us during these tough economic times. Since, except for direct ad sales, there IS no other way to sell through via affiliates or other ad networks that I'm happy with for our sites, I'm starting to remove ads, page by page, site by site, until a) google changes what it is doing and/or b) I find indication from others that things are getting better. I'll replace them with tips, hints, promotional material for our books and other products and services, so even if it doesn't result in direct income, at least the content will be under my control, and add to my visitor's experience.

At this point, I'm thinking that if Google wants to be part of my site network, it's going to have to allow us to completely and easily opt out of interest based ads being shown.

Not only do I not believe the numbers given to us on IBA, but even if they are accurate, I do NOT WANT ads on tricycles or other "interests" displayed with my content on business practices (or whatever).

I've always liked google, and I'm not a conspiracy fan. HOwever, while adsense may work for those who focus on ad displays as their prime business, it does NOT work well anymore for people wanting to monetize content they produce in conjunction with a real world business.

It's no longer place and forget. It's a daily process of experimentation and guessing games about what google is doing, and I'm not IN that business.

I have better things to do. Like write books. NOT trying to figure out how many ads, what color, location, and then why it works or doesn't work.

I admire those of you who can do that and make a living, but after seeing my income drop through the bottom, from enough to live a good comfortable life to something that is...well NOT, I have to think like a business.

We have other sites I had plans to develop, and I will do so, but there won't be ads on them, or at least not google ads. Other domains I've been acquiring will be parked either in google's program or another, but they won't be used to display adsense ads as active sites.

I'll be closing (actually have started) shutting down some of my sites to focus on what I'm most interested in, and I'll park those too.

Does all this upset me? Yup. My real world lifestyle goes from comfortable to "Can we pay the bills for the rest of the year", BUT I'm not waiting to expire or until google blesses me. Never put control of your business in the hands of a third party has always been my motto.

netmeg

3:52 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Are your sites also doing ecommerce or affiliate sales, or just information with AdSense?

Rockyou

4:34 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



coachm its really sad the way Google behave, Having adsense on your site is live in fear, stay in fear, die in fear. If they pay you peanuts throw them out. There is no recession or anything now but their greedy & selfish attitude is making people's life hell. Its a wake up call for everyone now.

coachm

4:41 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



We sell my books and other "learning products" direct and through the amazon affiliate program (which is actually doing fairly well), in print, pdf, kindle and other formats.

Over the last two months, sales have fallen a lot, but lots of room for growth there.

I've experimented with various other affiliate programs, but a) I'm not good at it and b) having affiliate stuff takes attention away from our high margin sales.

I'm trying to learn proper sales copy writing as I have time, to improve our selling pages/stores.

So, I'll replace the adsense ads with our own copy/flash/rich media ads promoting the products.

I'm moving back into public speaking and training, which can be very lucrative, and removing the google ads should improve credibility.

The other area where I "should" be able to improve is in recruiting our own affiliates, but again, I've had little success with that, and it's one of those areas that's time consuming to get it right. I have no problem paying high commissions on order, to affiliates, but I haven't had anyone sign up that is actually selling much. 2 or three orders a year.

In essence my thinking is to focus my time and energy, or rather refocus on what has some track history.

I'm open to ideas, but it's the time factor that is critical to me. I did six new books/second editions in the last 14 months, and I want to get back to writing as much as possible, and reduce web/social maintenance time so I have a life.

JoePublisher

6:02 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am sorry to hear of your troubles coachm, and a lot of what you said should be taken note of.

However, I am specifically replying to the title you gave this post CTR, visitor rejection of 'Google' and what I am doing about it - rather than other issues you pointed out, like a decrease in earnings. I might be slightly at odds with you in some respects because it sounds as if we have different types of business plans and different website properties, (but I may be wrong on that).

My target audience is the Western English speaking world, specifically UK, USA and all other English speaking countries tied into that demographic ... what does that matter? Well, it concerns CTR ... yes my visitor numbers continue to climb from my target audience, (as does Adsense income from them) but visitor numbers are climbing in 'real terms' faster from the rest of the world (TROTW) who do not have English as their first language, and the reason is simple.

Just as in the 1990s computer usage exploded in the Developed Countries, specifically the UK and USA, it is now exploding in TROTW, including less developed countries. These countries are now on line and they are searching for things ... admittedly this is still found in the richer sections of these societies, but the trickle down effect is also happening too.

Also computer usage in the relatively poorer Ex Eastern Block Countries is 'booming', and although in many of these countries English is their second language they are very, very, proficient in it.

For better or worse, 'because we got there first', the most important and most diverse information on the internet (at the moment) is written in the English Language, therefore people all over the world are seeking this information using English and English centric search engines like Google to find it. In the EU Google has over an 80% share of the search engine market, including in non-English speaking countries. Also other search engines are crawling my site looking for information, ones which are not English Language Centric.

What does all this mean? Google et. al. (but particularly Google) is sending me more and more traffic from less developed nations whose second language is English, (seen in my sites analytics results) they are being sent by long tail keyword searches which match pages on my site. So visitor numbers are up, but CTR on Ads is down, and there is a correlation there.

I am not sure if foreign language visitors have found the information they are seeking or not on my site, (who knows) but they are coming in increasing numbers, and while this is ok, (good information is still good information - if you can read it) I don't target them because my writing style and niche information is heavily grounded and based around the assumption that English is the first language in the country of the visitor - and all the nuances and cultural sensibilities and economic development which that entails.

Note: I also would happily agree that visitors from more developed countries like Germany or France might not find my site as interesting as one similar based in their own language written by native speakers.

Ok, lets get to the point ...

Google Adsense just released numbers in the Adsense analytics section which tells me how many countries my (their) Ads are showing in and the CTR for those countries - this tallies very closely with my Analytics Results of numbers of visitors by country.

It also matches perfectly with my assumptions (previous to getting this data) that CTR from Adsense is non existent, or almost non existent, in countries whose first language is not English - and these Ad numbers are showing thousands of impressions from over 179 countries around the world. I knew this, or rather 'felt' that this was happening, but I could never back it up by hard data ... until now.

So what have I done? Basically my hesitancy has been removed (on the 6 weeks data available - from March 22nd - which is enough to show me the trend that I 'felt' was happening, but you might want to wait for more data before making a decision) I have acted. The last four days I have used my third-part Adserver (DFP) to only show Adsense in 17 chosen countries (which will be 16 if Australia don't get their finger out!).

Based on this new information, and the blocking of poorly performing nations, my CTR is now through the roof, while my Ad impressions have plummeted, but obviously the money earned is still the same - all pretty simple mathematics, right? Oh and if you were wondering the data in the Adsense performance tab, by 'country', shows that the targeting is working, only the same 17 countries now show up each day.

But will this increased CTR in Adsense, which now looks like pre 2006 levels, help? I am making no more money with these new figures, but will it help me to make more money down the line? ... or will I get smart-priced because of a suddenly 'inflated' and 'healthy' click through rate? All good questions, ones I am looking forward to finding out! But that is the point, I am doing something about my CTR, so perhaps don't look at CTR as a problem? Focus on the 'loss' of earnings?

Are you making the same amount of money as you were 5 years ago, with inflation making the money go less far? Is your CTR in your target audience countries actually 'healthy' but it is being 'diluted' by an increasing number of visitors from non-target countries who are not clicking on Adsense ads? etc ... have you actually stopped expanding / stagnated / decreased in your target market area, and an actual expansion in visitor numbers is a 'false' positive, because these extra visitors are less focussed on what you have to offer?

Given all the data set, stripped of the non-targeted audience, my Adsense CTR is ok, while the visitor numbers continue to rise from my targeted countries, so overall, long term, I am making more money. And looking at the positives I now have the opportunity to sell Ad space to anyone interested in targeting my other visitors from TROTW. Or, I can wait until Google can offer localised and specialist Ads to these regions which would entice them to click on them, something the CTR suggests that they cannot do at the moment.

Decreasing CTR is something that I do not blame Google for, they are trying to show ads to non-targeted visitors from these countries who are increasing daily; the coverage % of ads is very high, but exactly what type of Ads are being shown I have no idea, but what this new information shows is that they are not being clicked on. Is this surprising? Not really. At the moment most online advertisers are from the English speaking developed world, time is needed for other countries to play catch up.

Your complaint against IBA ads is a whole other kettle of fish by the way coachm

My advice? Don't use the Adsense 'set it and forget it' code, (you have no control over it) put it through a 'line item' in your Adserver and control which countries get to see it ... (now this next part might sound like gobbledygook to those who do not use an Adserver but make sure your Adsense 'line item' is not competing against Adsense activated in the 'Ad Unit' placement - if it is, when your 'line item' Adsense is set not to show in that country the 'competitive' Adsense code gets shown instead, defeating the purpose).

This way you 'may' be able to get your CTR back up to a healthy level and sell off your 'Asian' or 'South American' traffic (Ad impressions) to a company interested in cheap CPM in that region who have Ads which suit that demographic / market.

Look at expansion and contraction of your visitors only in the regions / countries which convert for you ... strip out any increase in visitor numbers over the last three years from countries which do not convert, what do these numbers show, an increase or decrease?

But first go look at the number of countries your Adsense code is being shown in, how many thousands of impressions over the last 6 weeks were 'wasted' diluting your actual CTR? This is something you can do something about, and if you use DFP as an Adserver Google is actually giving you free and very powerful tools to do something about it with ...

netmeg

6:13 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Now, this is just me, but I would never use AdSense on a site where I'm trying to sell a product. It dilutes the focus; both the product sales and the AdSense clicks would tend to suffer for it. I know sites do it, I know big sites (like Walmart and Target) do it, but I think they're making a big mistake. Maybe put AdSense on supporting pages (like an accompanying blog or forum) but even that ... I dunno, I'm trying to think of a circumstance where I would do that, and I can't. If I have a site promoting my books, and I spend some amount of time and/or effort and/or money getting traffic to that site to push those books, then I really don't want to send them off to click on ads.

Play_Bach

6:34 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



@JoePublisher
Interesting points regarding countries. If there was an option in AdSense to only show ads to USA, UK and Canada visitors for my site, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

JoePublisher

6:49 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Oh, coachm, having now read what niche your in, basically ... what netmeg said :)

@Play_Bach ... it might take longer than a heart beat but if you transfer your adsense code to an Adserver like google's DFP you can do it in a couple of hours (?)!

Set up a small busness DFP account, (which is free) although other Adservers also have excellent points to them, then search for "double click for publishers starbug" in google. 'DaStarBug', who writes on this forum, has the best explanation 'anywhere' on how to set up DFP on his own specialist forum - start on the first page of the setting up DFP info.

A friend of mine, encouraged by me, followed his instructions literally 'one at a time' and managed not only to set up DFP running on his site in just a couple of hours he understood all the gobledygook speak too - now he runs a professional advertising set up fully controllable using Adsense or whatever Direct advertising ads he gets on his site.

Using DFP (or another free adserver) you can limit whatever countries get to see your Adsense code while still retaining all the channel information which is still presented in Adsense in exactly the same way.

koan

8:13 pm on May 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Now, this is just me, but I would never use AdSense on a site where I'm trying to sell a product.


Gotta agree with netmeg. I don't understand why ecommerce sites would put ads, much less depends heavily on it. Even in an article section, I would still push my own product instead. When I see some online shop with ads, I think "wow, that's greedy, and not a sign of trust".

farmboy

12:09 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



When 99.5 percent of our visitors do not click on google ads I have to interpret that as an almost total rejection of their existence on our sites. They add no value to our visitors, and so they are ignored, and add no value to us as a business.

In fact, if anything they send an image of our business that may affect our sales.


Before the Internet came along, I was involved with businesses that used direct mail marketing. With a targeted list, a good mailing piece and a good offer, a 1% response put a smile on my face. A 2% response was a reason to throw a party.

So when I get only a 1% response with AdSense, something that didn't cost me any money, I'm happy.


Over the last two months, sales have fallen a lot, but lots of room for growth there.


I have a hobby that puts me in contact with a lot of people who aren't affluent. The extended unemployment situation in the U.S. (which is really higher than the 9% or so usually reported) along with the rise in gasoline and food prices is having an impact on a lot of people. That ripples up and has an impact on a lot more people.

It's inevitable that it will impact anyone trying to sell something in one way or another.

FWIW
FarmBoy

farmboy

12:11 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I don't understand why ecommerce sites would put ads,


Like so many other things, it depends.

Amazon and eBay do it, and they each have plenty of information to rely on when it comes to maximizing profit from visitors.


FarmBoy

ErnestHemingway

2:31 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Ridiculous CTR past 4 days going down the hill insanely. I have been implementing other forms of revenue and I see better option by end of this year I want to move away from Adsense. More of a stress than anything else.

koan

10:35 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Amazon and eBay do it


These A-list sites are the exceptions that confirm the rule. They can get away with it because they have established their authority, most people already have an account with them and don't have trust issues. So many people visit these sites just for window shopping, I can understand adding a few ads here and there.

But if Amazon or eBay were to say that their online business were seriously declining because of weak online ads performance, I would wonder about their priorities and vision.

coachm

5:23 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

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strapped for time, so I`ll go one by one as able. Joe, the geotargeting info is good and others should take note also. I looked at the country numbers, and it varies a lot by site, but the effects were pretty obvious. For example, on one site, there were a lot of visitors from India (the areas in which they are emerging tie in to some of my sites), and their ctr was ZERO.

The problem though isn`t CTR per say, because ours has always been in the low single digits, but that a) it`s dropped by 80% to sub 1%, which tells me visitors are rejecting the ads, and b) our income is down no matter what period you measure it against in our long history of involvement.

Sure, I could show other ads to visitors who are not adsense valuable, but that really isn`t likely to increase revenue.

coachm

5:26 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



and to Netmeg. I know, I know. Many feel it`s not appropriate to have ads and sell products/services. We don't have actual ads on pages related to what our company "sells". We offer a lot of free things on our sites, and that, as we tell visitors needs to pay for itself.

Still, you have a point, and it's one factor that is pushing us to remove adsense completely. Just ripped it off of 100 or so pages in our "library". We have had a strong track record of selling product along with adsense. NOW, it's different, since March.

I can control some aspects of the products/services, but I can't control adsense income at all, so guess what wins.

DaStarBuG

3:20 am on May 3, 2011 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My AdSense earnings plunged last month about 35%.
Now I am using this as a reason to start changing my Ads around from places that worked for a long time.

For example there are new explanations to AdSense quality guidelines which tell us that Ads pushing content below the fold are "bad".

In my forums I used to display a large rectangle next to an information box telling guests about my forum and a call to action (registration). But due to this box content was pushed below the fold. I removed this box and replaced it by another ad inside my content.

This is most likely not the reason for the plunge (more likely low advertising spendings and a little less traffic and a little less CTR) but hey, if my earnigns are on an all time low why not do some more wild experimenting?