Big sucsses in adsense = Big Fears

[the_lighter]

Hi every one,

First, I want to apologise my english. I'm not from here...

I am a fan of this fourm for long time and engoy the high level of the people here.

AW, I have a thought regardind adsense that i would like to share with u guys:

Im in the adsense world for 2.5 year and i am actully doing very well. from Last year i even double my day job (good job with average salery).

my problem is that the more i am successful with my adsense, i am more concerned about it as i dont know how to deal with it.

i mean, we all hear a bout accounts being banned and epc being deacrising etc...

the point is that im affraid to admit the hige amount of money that i am making and i and am wondering if there will be a day that i could say to myself this is what i do and from now on i am starting to live by that.

let me just say that all my action with adsense is super legitimit. no black hat or somthing. just good content and hard work

I really want to hear from the ones here that making nice amount of money with adsense, how you are dealing with it and to hear your thought about it.

again, sorry for the louzy english...

[koan]

The recent Panda Google search update and the revenue decline on some of my sites have certainly made me painfully aware how depending too much on Adsense, or even Google traffic, is a scary proposition. If I was you, I would go for it and milk it as long as possible, you seem to have found some success, but I would either think of a plan B when it all crumbles, or start diversifying today. Diversification can be a part time job, more web sites on entirely different topics and formats, or other revenue streams, like an ecommerce shop, CPM ads, affiliates, etc. Even if it doesn't pay as well as Adsense currently, you still need something to fall back on in case Adsense vanishes from your life. You'll sleep better too.

[caran1]

Always diversify your revenue options, having multiple sources of income helps. Your Adsense account can be disabled any time even if you earn in four figures a month , and their support may not bother to reply to your emails.

[nick28]

I think most adsense users have BIG FEAR being banned some day.
We can read 1000 times the rules and TOS and think that everything is OK with our sites, but for some reason you oversees something and you get banned without warning.
Companies send warning before akting hard, but Google don't.
That is what I am missing.
Suppose, one has 5 sites and 2 of them are against the rules, but he can use 3 others for adsense and G ban his account for all sites.
I think, Google has to consider a "ONE WEEK WARNING" with more details of violation, before banning the account.

[explorador]

Diversify?

Pros: You don't have all your golden eggs in one basket. The chances of one thing ruining everything are usually cut in half. And while you try other stuff you *might* find some better alternatives.

Cons:As discussed in other thread here diversifying could mean less income, some people have dropped that practice and placed everything under G wing and surprised themselves for all the money they earn. Not diversifying could mean more money.

I agree with the fact that G is not accurate or fair on its decitions, you can be banned while you find thousands of worst examples still making money from Adsense and nothing happens to them. I also agree on how bad it is being worried about your earnings.

Worried?
I was like that and I admit I still worry but after some issues I ended busy on other stuff while my websites were left behind since november 2010. I'm better and discovered the obvious fact that being worried has no effect on my earnings, only on my mental health.

I know having two Adsense accounts is not allowed, but it is to have corporate accounts (I remember reading that here). You could get some help from your brothers, sisters, etc and get another account. So there would be two differect baskets.

Try to relax, remember that making money on Adsense is not the main reason *most* of the great webmasters started their thing. Pretty sure that's not why you did it. Making money from Adsense is just one thing, your sites will tend to have more value over time anyway. Good luck.

[Lame_Wolf]

Companies send warning before akting (sic) hard, but Google don't.

Depending what the breach of TOS is, Google do give out warnings.

Suppose, one has 5 sites and 2 of them are against the rules, but he can use 3 others for adsense and G ban his account for all sites.

Not all sites can have Adsense. The rules are quite clear to understand.

I think, Google has to consider a "ONE WEEK WARNING" with more details of violation, before banning the account.

Like I said, they do give warnings. Some things deserve an instant ban, some do require a warning... esp if you think something is in the Public Domain and turns out to be copyrighted. But if your site is asking to click on the adverts, shallow content, warez, images with other people's copyright stamped on them etc. etc. then expect an instant ban.

Then again, if the Adsense Team checked every site manually, and with the correct tools (along with the long wait period to be allowed to come onboard) then a lot of sites wouldn't have been granted Adsense in the first place.

People seem to think that Adsense owes them a living, or they think they can produce any old kak and fill it up with adverts.

If I were in charge of Adsense, I would be a lot stricter than they are, and would cut down on the amount of countries allowing to use it. It seems more hassle than it's worth.

I do agree that Google should give you more info as to what violation occurred.

[gmb21]

i and am wondering if there will be a day that i could say to myself this is what i do and from now on i am starting to live by that.

If you have a good job, then another way to look at it is: enjoy the extra money while you have it, and if it goes away, just go back to living on your normal income.

The key then is to never allow your monthly expenses to exceed the income you get from your regular job. Save the Adsense income to buy one-off purchases (like paying cash for a car, or paying off lump sums of your mortgage) - then you don't have to worry if Adsense disappears because you can still survive on your normal income.

I, personally, can't imagine ever depending on Adsense or Google traffic -- it's far too fickle. (But maybe that's because I think like a hobbyist, not a business person, lol.)

Life's about more than money. What's the point of being rich if it makes you feel stressed all the time? I'd rather be poor and at peace. :)

[nomis5]

I'd rather be rich and at peace at the same time! It is possible.

[wyweb]

@the_lighter

my problem is that the more i am successful with my adsense, i am more concerned about it as i dont know how to deal with it.

Stay simple. Don't buy a big house. Or anything that's going to get you locked into long term payments. If you buy expensive things, make sure they can retain at least some degree of their value because you may be selling them if the bottom drops out.

Stay wherever you were at before, and I mean that on several levels. If you lived simply, keep living simply. Get financial advisors to tell you what to do with the money. Pay them what they want and let them do what they have to do. They know more about it than you do.

@Lame_Wolf

People seem to think that Adsense owes them a living,

People seem to think Google owes them in general and I'm getting tired of seeing it.

[wyweb]

@gmb21

The key then is to never allow your monthly expenses to exceed the income you get from your regular job. Save the Adsense income to buy one-off purchases (like paying cash for a car, or paying off lump sums of your mortgage) - then you don't have to worry if Adsense disappears because you can still survive on your normal income.

We said the same thing. I didn't read your post because I was in a hurry to get something posted to the_lighter, but that's good advice. I think it is anyway.

[Lame_Wolf]

People seem to think Google owes them in general and I'm getting tired of seeing it.

Me too.

[wyweb]

@nick28

I think most adsense users have BIG FEAR being banned some day.

Maybe... I don't know. I don't know the numbers. It doesn't scare me a bit though. There's no fear here baby. If they ban me all I'll do is kick this direct advertising thing I've got going into high gear and every one of their ad spots on my 30 websites will be filled within days... okay maybe weeks. I'm trying to move slow with it though. I don't like making big, sudden moves on the net. It raises red flags. By the end of the year adsense will only be a memory for me.

I don't give a damn if they ban me tomorrow. They don't have to ban me. I'm banning them. And I'll steal some of their traffic too, just like they've been stealing mine. I've already stolen some of their advertisers and I hope I can get a few more.

If you don't like it don't play. Get another game going... That's what I do...

[drall]

We used to be a AdSense success story, had 2 reps and earned six figures a month for over five years of the almost eight years we have used AdSense.

Today we have general email support and earn low four figures a month. Traffic has increased to most properties we own and click volume has remained same or increased. When the first real hit happened 3 years ago we had to let go of staff.
So you have to ask yourself...

[wyweb]

@drall

So you have to ask yourself...

Absolutely. No question.

And my response to myself was to fire them. Kick them to the curb. I'm doing it slowly though.

As ad networks go, adsense is probably one of the best. From what I've seen it actually is the best. It's plug and play. You can't get more friendly than adsense. Copy a bit of code, throw it on your page and you're making money. It worked for me for a while and I was there from the start.

I've got a site with a 30k Alexa ranking. Say what you want about Alexa but some companies still use its valuation to determine whether they want to deal with you or not. A good deal of page views a day. Upwards of 35K. It's an ecommerce site and that traffic converts for me. And adsense serves perfect match ads. They're dead on target. I'm making sales on this site. It's good traffic. Yet I've been smart priced. I've been told I've been smart priced. But not why.

My traffic converts for me, but apparently not for them, even though the ads are perfectly targeted. But I'm smart priced anyway.

Well we'll just agree to disagree and they're fired. Buh bye. I'm not gonna put up with this. I know what that real estate is valued at and if they don't want to pay I'll go somewhere else.

And I would encourage anybody else to do the same.

[Jane_Doe]

I really want to hear from the ones here that making nice amount of money with adsense, how you are dealing with it and to hear your thought about it.

I think whether or not to live off Adsense depends on many other factors. Do you need any benefits from your day job? I don't know what country you are from, but in the U.S. health care is a big reason people keep corporate jobs.

What are your expenses? Your savings? How easy would it be for you to get another job if your account got banned? Could you make a living with other programs? Do you have more than one site? If you only have one or two sites, what would you do if those got deindexed? It can happen even if you are white hat, because of competitor dirty tricks or simply bugs in the algorithm.

Do you have any other sources of income? A working spouse? Savings? Trust fund?

There have been many people here who were making a living from the web and had their Adsense accounts banned or their sites tanked and they were in big trouble. That isn't to say not to live off Adsense, but you need to have have a plan B in place in case something happens.

I was cleaning out some files this week and I found a list of my sites from 2006 and how much they earned per day. My main money making site back then makes less than half of what it did post Panda update. Yet another site makes 8 times what it did back then. Many of the other sites had similar changes. Overall my income is up since 2006, but if I only had the one site it might now be less than half of what it was.

The thing about living off web income is there is obviously the potential to make nice amounts of money. If you are a staff accountant at XYZ Corporation no one is going to give you a $50K raise in one year, but that or more is quite possible with web income. With a corporate job it going to be more like, "Bob, you've had a great year. Wonderful job on the Smith account. So for that quality of work here is your 3.5% raise, 1.5% above the company average and a $20 American Express card as a token of our thanks. Keep up the overtime and good work and you can expect another raise like that next year."

[wyweb]

@Jane_Doe

but you need to have have a plan B in place in case something happens.

That's what I'm saying also. I'm preaching it even. Do not depend on one income stream from the web if your house payment depends on it, or if it's how you buy groceries. You better have several or don't even think about quitting your day job. In fact, unless you've got a couple years worth of sustained income from the web, you better keep your day job anyway.

I didn't. I jumped out there as soon as I could but that doesn't make it right. I wanted to stay home and go fishing and I quit my day job. I made sure I could go back though. If I had to. I got lucky though. My sites were taking off like rockets and the traffic was rolling. I got kicked off two servers because I had too much... traffic I mean. Well, excuse me.

If you've got your own product to sell, you're in better shape. There are other ways to sell on the web. If you're relying on traffic to your website to click your ads, you're at the mercy of whatever search machine is sending it. That's a precarious position to be in.

Bob, you've had a great year. Wonderful job on the Smith account. So for that quality of work here is your 3.5% raise, 1.5% above the company average and a $20 American Express card as a token of our thanks. Keep up the overtime and good work and you can expect another raise like that next year

Laughed for a good 30 seconds on that one. Still chuckling. I'd sling that $20 American Express card back in their face.

That's just me though.

[rajivatre]

If you are a staff accountant at XYZ Corporation no one is going to give you a $50K raise in one year, but that or more is quite possible with web income

This is true about any business v/s job. In day job you have a fixed income and less chance to increase that income more than 10-15% YOY. In Business its mainly upto you how much you can increase your income.

So Adsense or any other Business you can surely increase your income every year.

I would just advice diversify in the sense that have different websites catering to different geographics, topics etc. Think about direct advertising, Subscription model on your site. I know its a bit of work but with your extra Adsense income may be you can hire somebody who will do this for you.

Also diversify offline. Meaning invest in Shares, Gold, Property or whatever best you think offline.
Please Purchase with full cash, do not mortgage or buy anything on loan.

My 2 cents.

Thanks
Rajiv

[Jane_Doe]

Also diversify offline. Meaning invest in Shares, Gold, Property or whatever best you think offline.
Please Purchase with full cash, do not mortgage or buy anything on loan.

I agree. Sock away your earnings so you have another independent income stream coming in. Save like you might not be making that kind of money tomorrow because you really might not be making that kind of money tomorrow.
Consider making sites that run as much on autopilot as you can. Invest the site earnings offline to diversify your income streams. That gives you passive and semi-passive income coming in from two sources.

[wyweb]

@Jane_Doe

Save like you might not be making that kind of money tomorrow because you really might not be making that kind of money tomorrow.

And you might not. The web can take it away just as fast as it gives it to you. If you get big on the web, the money can roll in. I've got pictures on me sitting at a table looking at 50K in banded hundred dollar bills with my mouth wide open. I was mugging. I was happy. That's a lot of cash and I was stoked. It doesn't take long to burn it up either.

@rajivatre

Please Purchase with full cash

That's what I'm talking about too. Don't depend on adsense to make your monthly house payment. Buy whatever you want but make sure you can sell it again too. I lost 2 boats and a 23 foot motorhome when things got tight but I got my money back out of them. In fact I made money off the motorhome.

@the_lighter

I think you should get a good financial advisor. They're out there. Find one you can trust. Ask around. Don't just go with the first one you see but talk to people and get steered in the right direction. Explain to them that this income could dry up any minute.

They'll tell you what to do, although you've gotten good advice in this forum already.

[Jane_Doe]

Don't just go with the first one you see but talk to people and get steered in the right direction. Explain to them that this income could dry up any minute.

Check out the bogleheads and early-retirement forums for financial advice. Those forums are filled with millionaires and cheap skates and many people who are both.

[CMidd]

Google is the best easiest thing in town now, but they could switch on you in a heart beat.

like people say they know people who used Adsense for years and are doing good, I know a lot of people who made a ton years ago and after a few Google slaps they make nothing.

never put too many of your eggs in one basket. Always look for different revenue sources.

If one companies pays you over 85% of your income, you indirectly work for them, not yourself. Your business is an extension of their business, where you absorb all the risk. You are basically a Wholly Own Subsidiary of Google.

I seen people slapped and 80% of their traffic drop. I seen people smart priced to pennies, i seen people banned for sexual image "only having non sexual pictures of women in bikinis in a single gallery on their huge site" << ME LMAO.

it will only take one google slap/ban/warning for you to smart up and realize you need to expand.

Tips for anyone.
use an adserver and imbed Adsense in it. "Open X, Google DSP, Adpeep"

this allows you to replace Google in mass if they decide to ban you or if you want to test other networks. "I call it the Google kill switch"

Apply for all ad network and just maintain an account.

I have account with every network and put them on low traffic pages just to maintain impressions. if something happens I can expand them OR if they are making good money on low traffic pages I can expand them.

Apply to
Chitika
Infolink
Virbant
Adbrite "They suck, but work"
Commission Junction
PaperJam
Link Share
Any direct niche companies that offer affiliate programs.

You don't have to use them, just keep them for back up.


Always put a Advertise here page on your site. A simple page telling advertiser how to contact you.

Share Analytic Traffic with Double Click Ad planner "allows advertiser to see your traffic, impressions, etc"
Put Quantcast on your Home page "allow advertiser to see you demographics"
Register you site with Alexa.


remember to have a plan B, and keep an emergency fund of at least 2 months.

[Jane_Doe]

Great advice, Cmidd. That is one to print out and save.

[Elsmarc]

For those who say that AdSense (or Google traffic) can dry up at any moment, don't forget that a person can lose a job at any moment. No job is totally "secure". There is some good advice in this thread, but it applies to all jobs as well. Save money, don't spend what you don't have, don't take on debt, etc. are all pretty standard "smart" ideas no matter what your profession(s) and income stream(s). And it's a no brainer to have different revenue streams from web sites (mix of say AdSense and direct advertisers and donations, products to sell, etc.).

We used to be a AdSense success story, had 2 reps and earned six figures a month for over five years of the almost eight years we have used AdSense.

Today we have general email support and earn low four figures a month. Traffic has increased to most properties we own and click volume has remained same or increased. When the first real hit happened 3 years ago we had to let go of staff.
So you have to ask yourself...

I don't ask myself anything. Even as a business standards consultant I had bad years where I was lucky to make US$250 a day, and good years where I was charging US$1450 a day plus all expenses. If you don't expect and plan (and budget) for bad years you're setting yourself up for a fall from grace.

Sounds to me like your niche has been invaded (for lack of a better phrase) and people are going and buying elsewhere (aka competition). You say your traffic has increased and CTR hasn't changed. If that's the case your niche has probably been extremely diluted by your competition - Or - Your niche is no longer very valuable for what ever reason. I will say that since you had 5 years of income in the 6 figures a month range (which we all know is quite impressive) I hope you have saved for that proverbial "rainy day". Let me see... At a base of US$100K a month x 12 months x 5 years = US$6 million. That's a nice income even if you were paying a couple of people to work for you.

I'm a "cheapskate". I remember one friend who stopped by (I'm recalling a visit in 2005) and was totally freaked out because I had bought all new major kitchen appliances. He said: "I don't believe it! You spent money!" I had paid off my mortgage several years before that and just started putting the amount I paid on my mortgage in savings so I had (and have) a lot of cash. I have credit cards and I use them all the time, but I pay my bill off every month and have absolutely no debts of any kind. The friend of whom I speak is now near bankruptcy, has lost both his businesses and is in rather dire straights. He spent a lot of time on the golf courses and burned up his cash as he refinanced everything as often as he could and built his businesses on loans. Now he's up the proverbial creek and in debt up the wazoo.

Each of us decides how to live our life which includes our life style.

[CMidd]

Thanks Jane Doe


Another tip is to never depend solely on one traffic source.

If you're making good money on your existing organic traffic invest at least 5%-10% of that buying traffic else where or even on Google.

I'm shock at the number of site owners who make hundreds to thousands a month, but are to cheap to buy traffic. They always want something for free and depend to much on on that free traffic.

When you buy traffic:

1. You're expanding you site to a demographic that might haven't seen it, or reach people who might not have searched.
2. People might share it or link back to it.
3. Buying traffic on your site/niche increase the bar for entry by new competition.
4. Some of these long tails can be got for pennies per click
5. You're seen as a legit business because you advertise.
6. You can snatch cheap traffic for keywords you don't rank high for.
7. You can advertise on you competition site and drive traffic to yours.
7. You diversify your traffic and no longer become Totally Dependant on one source, if you site is profitable, this should increase you earnings.


If you'r making $1,000 a month off organic, invest at least $50 to $75 advertising your site for cheap long tails.

There are ton of networks to get cheap traffic from. Buying traffic should definitely be apart of any webmasters strategy "even if you're not directly trying to monetize that purchased traffic"

[wyweb]

@CMidd

Apply to
Chitika
Infolink
Virbant
Adbrite "They suck, but work"
Commission Junction
PaperJam
Link Share

Be advised CJ will kick you out for non participation. If you're not making them money, you're gone.

That's a good list though....

[wyweb]

@CMidd

clixGalore could be added to that list as well.

If you wanted to. They've screwed me over in the past though.

I still deal with them but I don't get paid for months at a time. They pay me whenever they feel like it and that pisses me off.

[explorador]

Elsmarc: For those who say that AdSense (or Google traffic) can dry up at any moment, don't forget that a person can lose a job at any moment. No job is totally "secure". There is some good advice in this thread, but it applies to all jobs as well. Save money, don't spend what you don't have, don't take on debt, etc.

Great post. Lots to say about it but off topic so I'll try to stay focus.

I can only comment that reading about related stuff, it seems that humans (lots of humans) think that good times always come, things will always get better, grow... and if some problem appears, someday there will be a cure for it (lots of imaginable stuff). I tend to think the opposite (and I feel the weight of it) : prepare for the dry season.

It depends on what we do with the money we earn, not how much we earn. There is a thread around of a member talking about his numbers, but then later he explains how much he spends on his webs... its a lot and the difference is very little, is like paying to keep it alive, not so much of a business.

[wyweb]

@explorador

Lots to say about it but off topic so I'll try to stay focus.

This guy's trying to figure out how to spend his money. It's not likely you'll get off topic here. This thing could go all over the place and that's actually how I like. Let's dance a little bit.

it seems that humans (lots of humans) think that good times always come, things will always get better, grow... and if some problem appears, someday there will be a cure for it (lots of imaginable stuff). I tend to think the opposite (and I feel the weight of it) : prepare for the dry season.

Prepare for the dry season. Stock up. Make sure you have reserves. If you're in the mountains, you have to do that. And I've been in the mountains. If you're in the city, it's more forgiving. If you're referencing crop growing, as in dry season, then I'm right there with you.

But I also stress this... have faith in yourself. Create opportunities. Make things happen. I've never not made money. Some years were definitely better than others though. I don't live in a penthouse but I've never been under a bridge either.

Well, actually I have. Been under a bridge. Some homeless Nam vets live under one and I go see them from time to time. I take them booze and food and bring my dogs with me. We sit around and kick it and get drunk and the dogs love it too. If I've got some money I'll give it to them.

That's what we do where I'm from.

[super70s]

Be advised CJ will kick you out for non participation. If you're not making them money, you're gone.

I've already been kicked out twice and I'm now on my third "non-activity" notice. I only have one site that uses them and I'm thinking about shutting it down, it's not worth the hassle of reapplying.

LinkShare I've been able to make a little regular money with due to iTunes.

ValueClick has been a consistent income stream also but YMMV.

[Jane_Doe]

CJ will kick you out and not even let you log back in to check your earnings for taxes.

My sites get millions of impressions a month and they kicked me out for nonactivity because I stopped using them for awhile, while many other ad networks are emailing me to try to get me to join their programs. I get the feeling that at CJ there are not a lot of long range thinkers over there.

How much does it cost them to maintain a low activity userid compared to trying to recruit a new affiliate with high traffic sites? I find it strange that they are even in the marketing business.