Forum Moderators: martinibuster
When Adsense introduced Interest Based Ad Preferences in our Ad Settings we have the "Do not show ads based on user interest categories" option. We all thing that this will show contextual ads for our visitors, which is what Adsense is about.
However, I was surprised to see that in all our browsers when I visit this page from Google [google.com...] I see Opt out option.
When I click opt out, all ads are very contextual and targeted. No interest based advertising. This is actually what I want not only as a publisher, but also as a visitor to other websites.
This means that our ads will show interest based ads for our visitors if they have not opted out from [google.com...] Is this right?
Then I noticed that if you click "Do not show ads based on user interest categories" from you Adsense Account settings area" there is another sentence, which is key. "Visitation information from my sites will not be used to help create interest categories."
Therefore, not that you opt out from SERVING interest based ads, but rather visitation information from "my site" will not be used to "help create interest categories."
ASA this tells us that unless our visitors Opt Out from here [google.com...] (and how many of our visitors even know or care about going and finding out to opt out,) on our pages they will see interest based ads. No wonder CTR has fallen so badly.
I have repeatedly argued that for many websites, particularly news website, interest based ads don't work. For example, Last week we all watched US Open. Serena Williams had an argument with the judge. I read that story and guess what. To this date, every place I go, even in my websites, I see Serena Williams related ads all the time. To this date. But this does not mean I am interested in US Open any more. Now I am interested in cars when I read about Frankfurt motor show, but when I turn the page and read about stress relief I am interested in things that can help me to relieve stress, not about cars anymore.
You see, the problem with the interest based ads does not take into consideration of THE FAST CHANGING INTERESTS OF THE VISITORS.
Therefore, if my assumptions are right, would you please give publisher a REAL option to opt out from serving interest based ads.
Adsense became Adsense because it did a great job with targeting. We all achieved some success because you targeted our content well. But things are changed now.
I know for sure, interest based ads don't work for us.
I would greatly appreciate your input on this matter.
Thank you.
[edited by: martinibuster at 2:16 am (utc) on Sep. 19, 2009]
[edit reason] Charter [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]
Saw the same thing ( "interest" ads based upon recent surfing as opposed to content of emails ) happening in Gmail almost immediately ..As like many I never click on ads :) left it running ( rather than opted out ) in order to observe the phenomena ..
It seems to be short lived .( sometimes only lasting 5 minutes to an hour ) .and sometimes appears to be switched off and on again ..But I suspect that each of us does not get the same experience there either ..
I doubt that they will give a switch off option to publishers ..but it is using publishers bandwidth some of the time ( how much of the time is impossible to determine ) in a quite futile manner ..for the publisher ..
I thought showing only contextual should be also in Google's best interest as they are trying to get more revenues.
Gmail has however always been the most usefull place IMO to see what G does with ads and how tight or loose they target ..it seemed to go live about 3 weeks ago ..but it was being trialed about 6 months ago ( for a couple of weeks ) across both gmail and serps
( I was seeing also the same adsense ..no matter where I went )..and no matter what the subject of the sites ..
I presumed that when it stated up again that everyone knew what the "deal" was ..
A semi opt out ..
G gives you the code to place ..and from then on it's their space to do with pretty much as they will ..just enough filters to give a semblance of control to site owners ..which is why adsense should never be the only revenue source ..
BTW This is certainly not to say that I approve of what they have done with "interest" based opt out/ ins ..( I dont at all !)..just that I dont think they will alter their implementation or terms ..nor do I think that they will make it clearer ..
After Opting out last night from being showed interest based advertising through my browser. This morning on that browser (I use several) I see perfectly targeted ads. Visitors are more likely to click on those ads on those pages. However, on those other browsers where I have not opted out, I still see many Serena Williams ads.
ASA I really hope that you can comment on this post either illuminating us on the issue or explaining why Interest based is better than targeted.
thank you.
Do you want your ads to show behaviorally (regardless of user browser setting) or contextually.
For some, let's say video games based sites, behavioral can work. The guy plays games but prefers Wii vs xbox. But for news websites or blogs, user interest changes as he or she turns the page to another story in a totally different category.
So you are accepting that it has not worked for you either. At least I believe google has to give the webmasters and publishers a clear choice.Do you want your ads to show behaviorally (regardless of user browser setting) or contextually.
I think what you mean is
At least I believe google has to give the webmasters and publishers a clear choice.Do you want your site ( as a publisher ) to be used to display interest targeted ads that have nothing to do with your site and are thus less likely to result in the viewer clicking on them ..we google will ( eventually ) make money from displaying these on ( as we google make money on the ads even if the viewer clicks on the ad later on in the day on another site ) ..your site however will make nothing as the ad isnt targeted at all to your site ..but you will have incurred bandwidth charges in order to serve the page that we inserted our ad into ..or would you rather that you as a publisher could opt out of displaying these ads and only display ads based upon your site content
I dont think that Google are ever going to give the publishers that choice ..
Because Google make money either way ..
And they maybe make more the "interest ads" way ..
Whether you make more money or not or even none at all ..doesnt worry them ..
( if you leave the program ..many others will sign up ..because it seems like free money ..)
You are not the customer ..
This means that our ads will show interest based ads for our visitors if they have not opted out from [google.com...] Is this right?
Nope. In order for a user on your web site to see Intest Category ads, BOTH of these conditions must be met:
1. Your site is opted in to receiving interest category ads
2. The user in question is opted in to receiving interest category ads.
If EITHER of these conditions is false, the user will not see interest based ads.
One thing to note is that interest category ads behave somewhat differently from ads shown based on a user's previous interactions with the advertiser. You can find more details in the Help Center here [google.com].
One thing that's important to note here is that no matter how ads are targeted, we take the predicted click-through rate of CPC as into consideration when our system decides which ads to show on your page. The auction is optimized to make you the most money possible, so the historical CTR of that ad on your page and pages like yours is one of the factors in the auction.
ASA
Opt-IN vs Opt-OUT
1. Your site is opted in to receiving interest category ads
2. The user in question is opted in to receiving interest category ads.
Where's the OPT-IN Button?
There only seem to be OPT-OUT instructions!
You can opt out of showing ads that are based on user interest categories (e.g. 'sports enthusiasts'). In turn, Google will not use visitation information from your sites to help create interest categories.However, you cannot opt out of showing ads to users based on their previous interactions with the advertiser, such as visits to an advertiser's website.
[google.com...]
Opt out of interest-based advertising
(or manage your ads preferences)
[google.com...]
I just don't see where it talks about OPTING-IN
And uhhh.... if a browser is set to delete all cookies when it is closed...
...you need to OPT-OUT again every time you start a new browser session, right?
.
However, you cannot opt out of showing ads to users based on their previous interactions with the advertiser, such as visits to an advertiser's website.
Nope. In order for a user on your web site to see Intest Category ads, BOTH of these conditions must be met:was untrue ..
1. Your site is opted in to receiving interest category ads
2. The user in question is opted in to receiving interest category ads.If EITHER of these conditions is false, the user will not see interest based ads.
Also in erku's original post he did not mention having visited an advertiser selling serena williams ..( which you say would result in his seeing interest based ads base on his peceicved interest in serena on subsequent sites ) ..he mentioned "reading about" ..different things entirely ..
My most recent run in with interest based ads ( which as a searcher I have not opted out of ..so as to be able to observe the phenomenum more closely )..was similar ..
After reading about an obscure french widget in a print book ..I used google to search for info ..the first result was directory type site ( collectors site run by collectors ..hosted on skyblog and with links from each members pages to each others ..absolutely no ads at all for the widget anywhere ) I visited around 20 different pages belonging to these widget collectors ..with no widget ads showing ..
Then I resumed searching on other totally unrelated subjects ..and got widget ads ( around 50% ) via adsense blocks ( on non widget related sites ) following me for the next hour ..I also during this time logged into a gmail account and there they were again ( and they were not in any way related to the content of the emails ) making up around 50% of all ads shewn to me ..
So they were not being displayed on sites because I had previously visited an advertiser ..but because your tracking had decided that I was interested in those particular widgets ..
Also extremely importantly ..I knew that I was opted in by default to receiving interest based ads by google ..however it was never mentioned to me at any time ..the opt in is silent and with out informing me that it has been done ..so I as an average searcher would not even be aware that I need to opt out of anything ..
re :
[google.com...]
Yes it ( interest based ads serving ) is mentioned /explained ( below the fold ) ..and the optout button is at the top of the page ..however IMO ( and doubtless googles )people are unlikely to click to opt out before they have read what they are opting out of ..and by the time they have found the detailed explanation ..the "call to action" has dissipated ..presumably that was the intention of the page design ..:)
The fact that it takes two clicks from the search page to get to this information is IMO deliberate obfuscation ..and I suspect that in light of your recent privacy policy requirements for adsense publishers that if a publisher made a site user jump through two clicks and a scroll down to get to the "meat" ..you would say their privacy policy was not displayed in a way that was in the users best interests ..
BTW which is the opt in master ( silent default ) cookie that you place ..and what is its life time ..?
And what is the max figure ( time from x) or ( number of displays from x ) that one will continue to see (y targetted )interest based ads subsequent to ones having been considered to have expressed an interest in (y product)..? after all you guys do hold the record for the longest life cookies :)
Also, in order to provide users with control over their browsing experience, we created the option to maintain your settings even after you clear your cookies. From the Google blog post from 3/11/09: "Control - You can always opt out of the advertising cookie for the AdSense partner network here. To make sure that your opt-out decision is respected (and isn't deleted if you clear the cookies from your browser), we have designed a plug-in for your browser that maintains your opt-out choice."
Leosghost, it's important to note that interest-based advertising includes targeting based on interest categories and targeting based on a user's previous interactions with an advertiser. When I said "interest category ads" I meant ads based on a user's interest categories.
ASA
<edited to remove a quote because my original post contained formatting FAIL>
widgetx in this case is such an obscure french one word item ( only 4 letters ) that before coming across it in the print book I'd never even known it's name ..and the first site and all subsequent pages on that site that I visited were carrying no ads for widgetx ..
However as soon as I left the first site and moved onto another site ..I started getting adsense showing me ads for widgetx irrespective of the new site(s) actual content !
These ads were not from the first site ( it doesnt sell widgetx ) skyblog is a kind of myspace place ..it sells nothing ..just carries blog posts and ads mainly banners ..with some adsense ..( none of which I clicked on )..
It seemed that the system needed some time to analyse what I had been reading ..and once it had ..started feeding me interest based ads on irrelevant sites until it ran out of steam or decided that I just wasnt going to buy ..
I repeat I did not at any time visit an advertisers site for widgetx ..
To make sure that your opt-out decision is respected (and isn't deleted if you clear the cookies from your browser), we have designed a plug-in for your browser that maintains your opt-out choice."
Care to share the take up rate on that "feature".
I'd guess it's a pretty low number as a percentage of total surfers.
At any rate you're asking users who clear cookies, probably to avoid senseless, privacy invading, tracking, to install a durable "plug-in" that negates the value of deleting cookies.
Uh huh.... :(
Yes I understand the plug-in "might" let a user avoid seeing "some of" the interest based ads, but it also lets G know the user is online and wants to not be part of the interest based ad deal.
Wouldn't it be simpler, and more honest, to just make the whole deal an actual OPT-IN program.
You know,
"click here if you would like Google to very aggressively invade your privacy and track your every move on the internet :)"
Surely if interest based ads are such a great benefit to the general surfing population the Opt-in rate for that offer would be really high, right?
.
We do substantial volume of business with Adsense. I am writing so you may know that our experience is based of tends of thousands of daily unique visitors not on a small data.
When I read a story about Serena Williams two weeks ago, I am not interested in it today. In fact I was not interested in it even after I changed the page to read a story about stress relief. If after reading a page about Serena I turn and go to another part of the website to read about depression treatment, Adsense better show me ads about depression treatment, not about Serena. Serena is gone, now my interested ABRUPTLY CHANGED. And if ads are not changed, I have no interest of clicking on it.
Therefore, my point is while interest based ads may have some merit, they may be good for some types of websites, but not for all. Particularly for news websites. Therefore, a choice for one of these three options would be great and let the webmasters who care about it test and find their own.
Options to choose from:
1. 100 percent Contextual Ads
2. 100 Percent Interest Based Ads
3. 50-50 Contextual and Interest Based Ads.
I would personally choose 100 percent contextual ads.
And speaking about predicted CTR. Allow me to disagree.
Before the interest based ads, on our site we would see near-double-digit CTR and great CPM. All natural because we cared to publish great news content and ads were greatly targeted. CTR made perfect sense.
Now, Our CTR is barely 2 percent or even below it. Under article CTR is below 1 percent.
Therefore, one approach for all does not work. Some peopel have health sites, some have games sites, some have gadget sites, some others news sites. The audiences are totally different. Some are in buying mode some are not. Some interest changes instantly some don't.
Adsense became a brand name and a great program with it's ability to target well contextually. Now I get an impression of hey let's try this, it should work, let's try that. But it does not work that way. Listen to your publishers. Some have built businesses having adsense as a partner for the past 6 years. it will be a good business to learn from our experience too.
Thank you.
you are free to give away your right to privacy ..
do not assume that I or others wish you to speak for us to google ..or any other organisation that wishes to invade our right to privacy
Personally me, I am already aggravate when I see Serena Villiams and Maria Sharapova ads on my screens. And it does not work. I will rather close the browser than click on the ad.
do not assume that I or others wish you to speak for us to google ..or any other organisation that wishes to invade our right to privacy
the point i was trying to make was to do with ken_b's comments: you were talking about google offering opt-ins and opt-outs, but i don't see why google should be required to offer a permanent opt-out for something which is considered perfectly normal in all the other advertising formats.
if you watch a sports channel, you are shown sports related ads. if you read a sports magazine, you are shown sports related ads... and if you visit a sports website google will show you sports related ads. the web is just the equivalent of TV. you watch some programmes and get related ads.
pretty useless from the point of view of the production team that made the cookery programme ..
see the analogy ..
and she would keep seeing sports related ads ..because no one told her that she needs to opt out ..
Londum you watch sports channel and see sports ads, that is not interest based, that is contextual. Then your wife comes and watches cooking for Food Channel. But she sees sports ads. That is interest based. But your wife does not have interest in it. Do you think your wife will be happy? No, she wants cooking related ads. There interest of the end user is changed. That's the point.
if you read a sports magazine, you are shown sports related ads.
and if you then put it down and pick up a cookery magazine ..would you expect it to be full of sports ads ..? and would it be ok if google had taken out the cookery ads and put the sports ones in their place ..the people who had paid to print the cookery magazine would be really pleased at the that ? ..no they wouldnt ..because the audience would be wrong ..
Can this be clarified either way (I don't care to place the blame anywhere), but I'd like to know the truth and I'd prefer it to be both in here and on Google's website.
I'm referring specifically to :
However, you cannot opt out of showing ads to users based on their previous interactions with the advertiser, such as visits to an advertiser's website.
Nope. In order for a user on your web site to see Intest Category ads, BOTH of these conditions must be met:
1. Your site is opted in to receiving interest category ads
2. The user in question is opted in to receiving interest category ads.If EITHER of these conditions is false, the user will not see interest based ads.
As to answer the OP: is there a point: yes there is: if we all opt out we send a clear message to the googleplex that we hate this "feature" and want it gone.
1. Contextual Ads
2. Less ads per unit (4 ads per 300-250 is TOO BUSY)
Thanks
Rajiv
Does OP mean to say that if we (Adsense Publisher) opt out of showing Interest based ads on site and site visitor has not opted out then visitor will see interest based ads?
it also says this
However, you cannot opt out of showing ads to users based on their previous interactions with the advertiser, such as visits to an advertiser's website.on the page at google ..
you haven't seen any "interest ads" on your site yet..just means that they haven't profiled you yet ..or you spend much more time looking at your own site than you do looking at others and so have not yet "interacted" ..
Thanks
Rajiv
