Forum Moderators: martinibuster
-- Lowest eCPM in 2.5 years
-- About 50% below normal lows for last 12 month range
-- Volume about normal
-- CTR about 66% of normal (last 12 mos)
-- double whammy: poor ads/no clicks & poor ads/no value
I know, I know. Its only one day. What, me worry?
...more quality pages with AS should increase earnings.
Sorry Charlie, Google don't want tunas with good taste. Google wants tuna that tastes good. [youtube.com]
What I would like to have explained, once and for all, what do people mean when they say "quality" and how does that help an advertiser sell more widgets?
I just want some mayo with my tuna....
I just want some mayo with my tuna....
or more ads that are in 'tuna' with my content.
What I would like to have explained, once and for all, what do people mean when they say "quality" and how does that help an advertiser sell more widgets?
By definition would Google search results page be deemed "quality" content?
Not really, a bunch of snippets, but it's quality comes from what it enables the visitor to do which is find sites on topics they want and ads running on those pages sell tons of stuff.
Therefore, quality IMO what the site helps the visitor achieve and the more productive the site, the more likely the advertisers will get the right customers and the best ROI.
Then again, scrapers have proved many times that you can make a fortune spamming the SEs with 100% gibberish crap because the only thing on the page that makes any sense whatsoever are the advertisements, therefore the scraper site has a "quality" that makes visitors use the ads as an escape mechanism.
Quality is obviously a subjective term at best ;)
[edited by: martinibuster at 5:39 pm (utc) on Mar. 6, 2008]
Pretty funny actually that adults still act like high schoolers.
It is a drag people just can't be kind or be quiet. Everyone comes to this forum for help or to share. Some are no doubt smarter , some are more friendly and eager to offer advice than others. Everyone should be more tolerant of each others shortcomings whether intellectual or social. They may have been a little rude but it won't help trying to oneup them by calling anyone names.
From what i see, the older i get the more i realize we will all still be kids when we die.
Cmon folks, shake hands and get back to sharing and helping each other again.
Are we tuna with good taste or are we tuna that tastes good? How do we know which one we are, in the absence of a solid definition?
Here are some more questions:
"Quality" pages are those which have useful, original, well-written content that is relevant to the topic, deigned for the user (not the advertiser), are easily navigated and don't crash your browser. OK? Does that help?
While quality may be a subjective term, everybody pretty much knows what it is and what it isn't.
Walrus, thanks. Now if Bill and the mods would read your post, maybe there would be some good karma here.
[edited by: fearlessrick at 5:27 pm (utc) on Mar. 6, 2008]
I understand your point, but it makes the whole discussion useless. Google's black box "gets it" so why can't humans. I think you're actually making it more of an issue than it needs to be.
Quality as defined by AdSense is defined by a secret algorithm. A number of factors define the quality of our content, possibly including referrer, keyword used to reach your site, clickbacks, etc.
We have our definitions of quality, i.e. Good Taste. But Google is looking for taste that's good, but we have no way of knowing what tastes good to Google. We can guess and there are some good guesses out there.
I understand your point, but it makes the whole discussion useless.
Yes, it does tend to make the discussion useless. However if we focus on what Google thinks is quality, and step away from our understanding of what quality is, then we are on a path that is, at the very least, useful.
I understand your point, but it makes the whole discussion useless.
So where does that leave us? Beats me.
[entirely_off_topic_trivia:]
MB, did you know that a perfect, unflawed specimen of Bluefin Tuna can fetch as much as 20,000.00 on the Japanese market? [cbsnews.com]
One fish. 20K.
Man, am I in the wrong business or what?
[/entirely_off_topic_trivia:]
Yes, it does tend to make the discussion useless. However if we focus on what Google thinks is quality, and step away from our understanding of what quality is, then we are on a path that is, at the very least, useful.
I beg to differ. Logically, since we don't know what Google thinks "quality" is, and may never know, and know that they may change their defitintion of it, it makes little sense to try to discuss their view.
Useful discussions can only occur when the participants understand what it is they're discussing. Quality, from a human, homo sapien point of view, is not a very nebulous concept.
My point was that creating quality content should result in better (higher) adsense earnings. Now, that is a hypothetical. The question is not what "quality" is, but how Google treats pages which I (or we, if there's a consensus) consider "quality content."
Once AdSensers agree on what quality is - and there's not a heck of a lot of argument there - then we can begin to understand what Google likes and dislikes.
Trying to guess what standards Google is using is like firing a shotgun into a muddy river. You'll hit some fish, but you won't know why.
In general, I find all discussions regarding what Google "thinks" to be almost completely useless because their algo may change by the minute or by the day, or not, and we have no way of finding out. Even if we do stumble upon some hint, they can change their process, too. So, yes, useless, pointless, a waste of time.
Eidt: wow, wyweb agrees with me, and he did it in such a concise manner. Cheers! I don't think we're in the wrong business. I think we have a partner (supplier, agent, call them what you will) in G that is more concerned with growing their revenues than ours. That much, to me, anyway, is obvious and why I complain about what publishers are being paid. We have no voice.
We can spend time adjusting to G, or they can adjust their algo to us. I would much prefer the latter, and fight for it, but I don't think it will happen.
That's why I don't care much for Google and see them as an impediment more than as an answer. I have a problem with people and/or companies which keep secrets and I'm not in the habit of trying to uncover them.
My solution has been to do what I think is best rather than focusing on what google "may" like, and that seems to be working right now. In fact, I can say in all honesty that Google has tried to punish my sites for certain behavior, but my traffic and overall business have improved. So, really, I pretty much ignore them now.
wow, wyweb agrees with me,
We can spend time adjusting to G, or they can adjust their algo to us...
And, given the enormous publisher base, the geographic extremes, the huge variations in all the different sites that publish adsense, how would they go about doing this? In an ideal world, sure. That would be nice. How would what you propose be possible in reality though?
Google adjusting their algo's to each individual publisher. I doubt that's even technically possible.
I'd prefer open source, and AdSense/Adwords and Search as separate companies, but I know that's not going to happen.
Sorry if I was misunderstood or misunderstood you.
My point was that creating quality content should result in better (higher) adsense earnings.
I'll toss in a counter-point here as I don't think it's the quality of the content but it's the nature of the content and the sheer volume of traffic it attracts.
Some sites get a ton of traffic with absolute crap content, marginal at best, and make tons of money while other sites with high quality and well thought out content may bring traffic but make very little via AdSense.
You have to ask yourself if your site meets some basic criteria in performing a function geared toward B2C where the visitors are most likely consumers, otherwise the success rate, payouts, smart pricing are most likely to work against you.
For instance a forum of web designers talking about web design isn't likely to sell much stuff. However, a forum discussing printer repairs by comparison is probably ripe for advertisers selling new printers, printer repair services, ink, toner, paper, etc.. The difference is the web design site is a peer to peer type of environment where the printer repair forum leans more towards the B2C scenario because the likely outcome of someone with a broken printer is they'll need some assistance in repairing or replacing their gear.
My favorite example was the guy that tried to monetize a somewhat popular JOKE site where the ads were based on the content of the jokes and not displaying other humor related sites. One search in Google where the word "joke", "comedy" or "humor" comes up with maybe one ad, if any at all, should give you a clue the site won't work with AdSense whatsoever but affiliate programs selling comedy CD's might pay.
Hope that makes a little sense.
I'll also hazard a guess that smart pricing is based on the actions of the visitors after they click the ads. If those visitors tend have a high bounce ratio off advertisers sites your payouts probably get discounted heavily. If those visitors tend to result in action, such as a transaction on the advertisers site, you probably get paid a lot more per click.
Once a service like AdSense gets ROI statistics on certain types of sites such as the web designer vs. print repair example above then it's possible to statistically predict the behavior of the visitors based on similar sites and discount them in advance.
Obviously it's their secret sauce and they aren't telling what makes it work but a little common sense can help you figure out within reason what should be more likely to succeed.
Lastly, AdSense isn't the best money maker for all sites or all pages within a site and it's best to keep an open mind with monetization efforts and not just keep trying what doesn't work over and over and over...
[edited by: incrediBILL at 7:47 pm (utc) on Mar. 6, 2008]
So far this month I am up by 1/4 to 1/3 over jan and feb. Getting close to my highs of November and December.
Admin, can we have some sort of voting system so we can see at a glance the general opinion as to how well people are doing?
Scrolling through the posts doesn't tell us anything. If we could rate our monthly income as a % of normal (whatever the heck that is) we might get some sort of sense of reality.
Every month we have this thread, there is enough demand for a more efficient way of collating the data.
Some sites get a ton of traffic with absolute crap content, marginal at best, and make tons of money while other sites with high quality and well thought out content may bring traffic but make very little via AdSense.
Publishers know that. They know that the visitors are looking for something and they're not going to find it in their content, but IN THE ADS.
I'll also hazard a guess that smart pricing is based on the actions of the visitors after they click the ads. If those visitors tend have a high bounce ratio off advertisers sites your payouts probably get discounted heavily. If those visitors tend to result in action, such as a transaction on the advertisers site, you probably get paid a lot more per click.
you mean they delay the earnings of the present click and pay out after they determing the actions of the visitor?
or
the increase the potential earnings threshold for future clicks?
Many sites with rich, userfriendly content such as images, videos and proper news are rare on Google`s No.1 search result pages. For many kws some of the very sites are not even among the top 40.
Just to provide a data point, my CPM has quadrupled in the last two days. This is usually a bad sign though.. as whenever this happens in the past, I get a week of record beating CPMs, then they crash for a few months thereafter
I believe when you pass a specific threshold (eCPM or CTR), it'll trigger the smartpricing algo. I also worry when I see a sharp spike in my eCPM or CTR.
Reminds me of the old rock hymn;" Ive been down so long,it all looks up to me!"
...KF
Most of adsense has been replaced by tribal fusion which gives 3x+ higher ecpm- we just never tried that before, since adsense performance was decent enough.
