Forum Moderators: martinibuster
The problem that I see is that these people are running adsense on these pages. I know that some of these sites are very possibly being built by other members here, but I just want to throw in my $0.02 and say that this is being a freeloader, and Google should discourage this practice.
For crying out loud, one page only had one link {mine} and about 70 words extracted from my article.
To make matters worse wathever script they are running creates the subdirectories to fully SEO their pages as in:
Disposable-domain.com/keyword/keyword/crappy-page-with-“borrowed”-content.html
This might make me some enemies, but really…. Isn’t this just a little evil?
I appreciate the links, I probably got a couple of dozen already, but I am willing to live without the couple of hundred referrals.
[edited by: paybacksa at 3:58 pm (utc) on June 8, 2004]
I'm looking to <widget> our house. I just went to Google and did a search on "How to choose a <widget>". Over 50% of the first five pages are the junk "directory" sites which do not answer my question but just offer me links to sites they scraped! SERPS just can't continue like this! :(
Google, get proactive and do something about this over and above any complaints you may get. Please. Googleguy, you around?
[edited by: Jenstar at 10:43 pm (utc) on June 9, 2004]
people who file complaints with AdSense/Google against other websites are put on the "frequent abuse reporter" list, and monitored more closely for invalid clicks and violations of the TOS (since falsely reporting your competition is a known black hat SEO technique).
loanuniverse - I think you've made the right decision and may I be the first to thank you? You are doing us all a favour.
Right ;-)
On another matter... the good news is that Yahoo is giving me relevant results for all my searches today.
Does adsense do anything once they are shown content is stolen?
No, in spite of getting success with Google DMCA.
I typed "How to choose an air conditioner" into Googles search and this is the result...
Results 1 - 5 of 5 for "How to choose a <widget>". (0.24 seconds)
All 5 are reputable <widget> suppliers or Manufacturers.
p.s... Thanks for the targeted search term... I might set up a site based on "How to choose a <widget>", load it up with Adsence and Searchfeed ads, and get #1 spot... it can't be too hard as there are only 5 sites to beat.
I'm gonna be rich, I'm gonna be rich... Yahhhoooo!
[edited by: Jenstar at 10:43 pm (utc) on June 9, 2004]
[edit reason] no specifics please :) [/edit]
#1 scraper scum
#2 scraper scum
#3 UK government site (not useful for me in this case but, admittedly, not scraper scum
#4 lim*seach: scraper scum pretending to be a UK SE
#5 .ac site (not useful, but not SS)
#6-12 scraper scum
#13 iop.org which seems to have some vaguely related content
#15-17 scraper scum
#18 An energy saving advice for Americans site
#19 Scraper scum
#20 Scraper scum
#21 .gov.uk page covering energy conservation legislation
...and loads more scraper scum after that but nothing that tells me how to choose an air conditioner :(
Go as far as 50-100 results and you'll see how the scraper scum dominate this seach term... as they are doing with many others.
I have no interest in this industry other than being a customer who's looking to buy air-conditioning for my home. So please feel free to post a useful site on the subject :)
Here are the results for "How to choose a <widget>"... I searched in "Quotes" in Google. there were only five results (2 are in pdf format)... 2 are Australian, which figures, as we do use <widgets> a lot... even in tents.
<snip>
I hope this helps... I'm only new to the internet, but if I can help you in any way in the future with learning how to use search engines, or optimize sites to attract traffic, let me know.
[edited by: Jenstar at 10:42 pm (utc) on June 9, 2004]
[edit reason] No specifics please, as per TOS [/edit]
....I'm only new to the internet, but if I can help you in any way in the future with learning how to use search engines, or optimize sites to attract traffic, let me know.....
Hmmm considering the small minority of internet users that use "quotes" in their search terms, I would say that your comment is uncalled for.
Nice post concentrating in form over function.
I am only relatively new to the internet also, but if I can help you understand that only a few people use quotes and that most of the visitors will see the other results, let me know.
Frankly I didn't see anything obviously wrong with the several "scraper scum" sites I checked from that search. Certainly no copyright issues. They're just directory/links pages that have been indexed in Google, along with billions of other pages.
[edited by: Jenstar at 10:42 pm (utc) on June 9, 2004]
They're just directory/links pages that have been indexed in Google, along with billions of other pages
I take your point about Google not being Ask Jeeves but I've seen a lot of research with focus groups as to how Google searchers actually use the engine.... and they do type in questions. As a searcher I am having to use more and more knowledge of Google to get to my answers... from use of quotes to eliminating sites with certain characteristics to restricting searches to a certain domain. With the A/C search I did try several things and gave up in frustration. It was sooo easy when I tried Yahoo. I'm not your traditional Google basher, I don't believe they are devils/crooked/manipulative/monopolistic etc. I like using Google, I want to continue using Google, but each time I have to go to another SE to get my answers I lose a little bit of faith in the big G.
We own authority sites in our field and for all 200-300 of our search terms we feature in the first 2-3 results in SERPS. But the scraper scum are sending me traffic... and that's a problem! It means that when people are looking for my content they don't always come to my site or my competitors' sites if they search for Keyword1 Keyword 2 plus some other words. If the scraper scum sites dominate the first page of the SERPS - because they have the keyword1 and keyword2 nicked from my description/title and happen to have a certain combination of other words they nicked from my competitors' description/title- the searchers end up there. (Because the scraper scum pages are autogenerated pages they are more likely to have the assorted other words the searcher is using).
The more astute searchers are now beginning to recognise these sites and they hit the back button as soon as they land on one. The newbie ones - some from Australia ;)- actually trawl through the scraper scum page and click on a link there hoping to get their answer. But they usually don't because scraper scum sites don't arrange the links in order of importance. They are not trying to help the surfer by giving him relevant results. They are only interested in their own revenue. So that wastes the surfers' time and hinders him in his search for an answer. Some surfers may just give up in frustration. The more scraper scum sites you have in the SERPS the more likely the surfers are going to abandon the SE as one that just doesn't take them to relevant results.
Google serves the searcher - let the searcher activity set the rules. If those sites don't convert Google will find out (toolbar for click timing, hit tracking, correlative cookie data, conversion stats when available, and linear predictive adaptive regressiopn algorithms when warranted :-)
Do you think they have no interest in improving the Search Engine? Or their other big investment, Adsense? Of course they want to improve it. Will they penalise someone who provides them with a useful report that helps them improve their product? I can't see what they'd gain from that. If anything ...they'll send you an Adwords coupon. At the worst they'll watch to see if you help them again. They may then double the Adwords coupons they send you.
That's about as likely as you getting penalised for helping Google :)
Google has no reason to take action against somebody's site just because that somebody provided them with some useful information. In fact they don't hand edit sites out except under very extreme conditions. I don't think you providing Google with some info is illegal. This is just a bogey with no base in any facts. You don't happen to have a "directory" site, do you? ;) I know you have raised this bogey before... and then "retracted" it with some comment about it being a joke ;)
As noted above, because I used "quotes" it searched in exact form and order... that is, EVERY word in exact order.
I think that it searched world wide, not sure
If you think reporting is so meaningless, why suggest reporting at all?
You don't happen to have a "directory" site, do you? ;) I know you have raised this bogey before... and then "retracted" it with some comment about it being a joke ;)
I never retracted anything. No directory sites here. I consult (and no, my clients aren't spammy directory sites).
"Dear Google. This Guy is cheating. Wah wah wah."
"Dear Google. THIS guy is cheating. Wah wah wah."
"Dear Google. Another cheater here. Wah wah wah."
Pretty soon all your competitors are out of business, and you are top in your field. But you deserve the rewards, because you didn't cheat, right?
paybacksa, your example of a playground is neither relevant nor helpful. This isn't primary school. This is business. It's not someone nicking your dinner money. It's someone fraudulently gaining a monetary advantage over you. When in business you don't sit back when someone tries to screw you over - you take action. If someone uses my trademark and ignores warnings I'll take him to court. If someone blantantly violates fair use of someone's Intellectual Property by copying little snippets from each of their pages making a total reproduced content running into several hundreds of pages the offended party may well ask their lawyers to make out a case for infringement - and may quite possibly be able to prove that reproduction of 1,000,000 words goes beyond fair use. Also, in business, if you can get someone else to do the litigation and save you the costs - you do it. If I am selling S*ny camcorders and a shop opens next door selling fake versions of the same thing - I'd save myself the trouble of prosecuting him - I'd give that over to someone who has better grounds and bigger pockets .... like Trading Standards, or S*ny Corporation themselves.
Allowing thieves to get away is not an option. Sitting back when someone commits theft is not the honourable thing to do - just as it's not the honourable thing to walk away from the scene of a hit and run accident (particularly when you know the offending vehicle's licence plate number).
Pretty soon all your competitors are out of business
And Google doesn't want it any more than I do. They can't take sites out on a whim... but they can take sites out on a DMCA. It's your vote that counts. When you find such a site using your content file a DMCA with Google and rid the net of these scum. As far as Adsense is concerned - "Deceptive and manipulative content ...." [google.com] is not what they want. Google does not require you to disclose your identity so please quit trying to disuade people from giving Google that feedback by using scare stories. If you have some facts - provide them. Anyone else wanting to report a site to Adsense needs simply to click on the "Ads by Google" and type in your feedback. It's that simple... and you don't even need to own a website to do it. Google has made it that easy because they want to hear from you. So if you're a searcher being frustrated by the scraper scum sites please fill in the form and help Google in their constant battle to keep the results relevant and free of crap. If you're a webmaster turn off your toolbar and use an anonymiser if you are the paranoid type - but click on the Ads by Google and report the site. It's a lot easier to get someone chucked off off Adsense than it is to get them removed from SERPS. And if they are chucked out of Adsense the incentive for the scraper scum sites to stay in existence takes a big dive.
Yup.. sounds like you're a chronic complainer - just the kind of person companies want listed so they can better "understand" your motivations when you file a yet another complaint. The vast majority of people who file complaints do so very seldom, not many times. Many companies take complaints very seriously and spend good money following them up. Your urging people to click and complain smells very fishy to me.
...your example of a playground is neither relevant nor helpful. This isn't primary school. This is business.
Wow you are quick to call things "fraud" which just a post-or-so-ago were grey are aguably fair use. Now you call taking "little snippets" blatant violations? Perhaps you need to read your own writing.. you do indeed come off a bit whackish in your logic.
..to walk away from the scene of a hit and run accident
So now if someone quotes your site on their site, you compare it to a hit and run accident? c'mon.
..I want my competitors to be in business, not "out of business". The honourable companies who sell products and compete with my on price, service, quality of products are what push me to improve my business.
There is no way I buy this! You must thing we readers are fools if you expect us to believe you like strong competition -- and you also are a frequent (anonymous?) complaint filer. Lemme re-cap: you like competition that takes away your customers, drives your profit margins down to commodity levels, and forces you to trim your operations down to the bone just so you can keep in business (no time for chit-chat with regular customers, no extra cash to use for experiments with new products, no travel perks, etc.) And since you like this so much, you also take time to write complaints and document your competitors so-called-unfair practices? Am I missing something here?
Google does not require you to disclose your identity
Okay, so now you are advocating anonymous reporting? Geesh if the "play yard analogy" didn't fit before, it sure fits now, eh? When I grew up a tattletale was a troublemaker, because unbridled tattle-telling with no accountability was just as bad as having done something worth reporting! Can you imagine a world where there was no accountability for reporting on your neighbor? Sounds like 1950's inside the Iron Curtain. No thanks.. and I think these companies agree with me, which is why they track complainers.
Anyone else wanting to report a site to Adsense needs simply to click on the "Ads by Google" and type in your feedback. It's that simple... and you don't even need to own a website to do it. Google has made it that easy because they want to hear from you.
Wow.. great copy writing! Practically a professional call-to-action to get others to go ahead and click that complaint line. I still don't understand your motivation, but Tombola was dead-on when he (she?) noted you seemed intent on getting others to complain.
As simple as clicking a javascript? JS is one of the most dangerous action scripts out there. Poor security, full access to your IP and browser data (sessions, cookies, etc) not to mention your Google toolbar and search history. That "one click" could give away alot of identifying data... this is one of the reasons I can't believe you are not trying to mislead... every webmaster knows "anonymous" is almost impossible on the Internet, but anonymous via a javascript click to Google? No Way!
Something smells very very fishy - no doubt about it. In fact, at the start of this thread I was merely cautious and perhaps suspicious. Now I am making very very sure I do NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR THAT FEEDBACK CLICK!
Anybody else picking up the vibes? Am I too cynical/paranoid? Stay under the radar is excellent advice, if you ask me.
Something smells very very fishy - no doubt about it. In fact, at the start of this thread I was merely cautious and perhaps suspicious. Now I am making very very sure I do NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR THAT FEEDBACK CLICK!
Remaining anonymous when reporting this type of activity is easy as pie. Granted that if you have a static ip, it might take some work, but really……..
What is there to fear? Will Guido comes a calling? Reporting is just clicking on "dissatisfied? help us improve".
The fear is instilled by those who hope their spammy sites will not be reported and their apologists. Silly tactic.
Oh, please... please.... track me down! I am a complainer, yes I am.
Google ask for that feedback, they want it, and they act on it as they see fit.
Something smells very very fishy - no doubt about it.
Shall we agree to disagree on the rest?
Shamed before my fellow webmeisters.. called one who spreads FUD, has an agenda, and <gasp - can I even acknowledge it> one who sounds ridiculous...
Sorry guys, but this whole thread has been ridiculous. Neither a spammy directory owner nor a Google shill, I confess to nothing more than a bit of wit, an impatience with buffoonery, and a penchant for the smirk.
Bad is wrong but poor is ok. How you react to the world around you is and always has been your business. Seek not consensus for imparting judgement on your peers - judge or keep quiet.
Further, you've twisted my comments to provide fuel for your attack. You've taken my claim that 1,000,000 words of stolen text may indeed constitute a copyright violation and alleged that I'm calling "little snippets" blatant violations. You take my comments about removing scraper scum sites and infer that I am encouraging people to complain about my competition.
FYI, I compete in a field for luxury goods and my competitors largely play by the rules, they are honourable people. I enjoy a much higher margin than they do because I've invested in branding and my brand has fair recognition in the UK. I've invested a lot in that.
And when people infringe on my brand name, my patents or my copyright - I complain. Just like IBM would do, just like Apple would do. If that makes me a chronic complainer then I'll wear the badge with pride. The more you have to protect the more you are pushed to complain to protect it. Owners of scraper scum sites may not understand that.
still don't understand your motivation
1 certain site, the only site i have ever "reported" will get reported again and again until adsense is taken off of the site.
