Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I run a website with around 40,000 impressions a day. Daily uniques average around 5,000 to 10,000. We thought Adsense would be a nice way to monetize traffic. So, we joined about four months ago. We've made some "good" money, I suppose.
However, we believe that we are not getting paid what our traffic is "worth". How do we arrive at that conclusion? Well, here's how:
Say for three days in a row we receive "X" in revenue from Adsense. During that three day span our revenue per click is, "Y". Our effective cpm on the pages we have Adsense at is "Z". And, finally, lets say our conversion of impressions to clicks is "10%".
Okay, then the next two days everything tanks. Our revenue drops by 50%. Our per click drops by 50%. Our CPM drops 50%, and the click conversions drop by 50%.
What bothers me is that the things Google controls (what they pay us) drops but the the click-throughs drop as well. The click throughs are something that is a product of OUR TRAFFIC.
Next, it seems just a tad coincidental that our click-throughs drop, AND what we get paid per click drops, too. We know, also, that the keywords we target are BIG revenue generators because we know what folks pay for them.
It just frustrates the daylights out of us. We WANT to send Google traffic. We work our tails off to do that, and there is just no rhyme or reason to the way they operate.
Finally, the system of "customer service" (notice my use of quotation marks) is, well, abysmal. What business model can you think of that says, "we won't tell you what you'll make. we won't tell you how we decide what ads to serve. we won't tell you what anyone pays per click. we won't give you a customer service number to call. we won't let you talk with anyone about this... etc"?
Look, if ANYONE has some advice on what we can do to make Adsense work, please help us out. I think that Google has a great product with Adsense but I just can't figure out how to get some basic (and I mean BASIC) questions answered.
My fear is that to Google, our "x" per day is, literally, meaningless. They figure that for every guy like me that really tracks this stuff and wants answers, there are 1000 more who don't question and don't follow it closely enough to know the difference between a good or bad deal.
Any thoughts are greatly (and, I mean, GREATLY) appreciated.
Yahoo and Google have lots of things that just don't sound right. The problem is that they can get away with it. There is nothing we can do about it now. Unless you can convince a really large number of people to do something else.
I would say that the main reason why revenue drops is the lack of targetting. Have you set up your own default ads to track defaults? There is a lot of information in this forum on this subject along with discussions about layouts that improve CTR. I would read about that.
I also have to agree with the previous answer... Traffic truly is worth what people are willing to pay for it. I believe adsense is a great program, but if after looking at the possible ways why it is not working for you, you can't still get it to work, then look for another way to use the space.
Welcome to Webmasterworld.
Adsense doesn't work for everyone, but if adsense in that advertising slot is making more than a previous ad in that slot, then it seems like you're still in a win-win situation.
If you find another advertiser (or advertisers) that will pay more for the spot, just take your average with adsense and if the new advertiser offers more, then sell the spot to them.
You know, I had a conversation with a staff member
today. We came to the conclusion that you've all three alluded to: If Adsense works at this level, then keep it. If not, let it go.
I guess I hoped to find a way to solve a riddle that there may not be an answer to.
Again, thanks for the help so far. I look forward to more replies!
the clicks may be different on your website from day to day,
and people also talk about the google's policy to calculate the value of a click.
so for a specific keyword, say computer, if you are getting 50 cents, some else might be getting $ 2 just cause he is sending better traffic.
Now its only google algo that decides who is sending better clicks and that person gets more value for his clicks.
but as you are there for 4 months, you might have seen decrease in earning as more people are joining in, i have seen people who are here for a year and they say that the previous time are difficult to come, i mean they had got a good scoop in the past, now google is sharing it with more people
Also the point is of targetting, if you are targetting right adverts, you will get more clicks.
Geo Targetting is also playing the havoc to some publishers, while its paying to some
i know only this much at present, keep diggin your brain and you will find causes for decrease
regards
dhaliwal
On one site I sell blue widgets. Process is such that I receive lots of contents in the form of user input. Which I later put online on separate pages each. The contents is not at all about blue widgets, practically there is no way to optimize for anything that would bring new blue widgets customers. So I challenge myself and optimize the pages for various offtopic things. Just basic - Title, h1, in-text, couple local links. Still some pages rank very well and bring lots of SE traffic.
I thought the situation is ideal to use adsense on these pages: people come looking for red gadgets but there are no gadgets, only talk about them, site actually offers blue widgets. Already frustrated visitor would happily click relevant adsense ad. What better for adwords advertiser than already little anxious guy/gal looking to buy red gadgets.
So in Feb. I put adsense on these pages. Not that much, but ok, still worth littering my pages with advertisments. And about a week ago (was it) comes the "improved" adsense algo. CPC drops 3x to absurd levels. I am withdrawing adsense without little doubt after I collect required $100.
Something is very wrong with the system :(
Next, it seems just a tad coincidental that our click-throughs drop, AND what we get paid per click drops, too. We know, also, that the keywords we target are BIG revenue generators because we know what folks pay for them.
I think the comments about targeting have been on target. When I get ads for a Denver auto broker on a European-travel home page, for Iowa visitor attractions on a page about walking tours in Italy, or for Canadian motorcycle tours on a page about currency conversion, I can expect a lower clickthrough rate than I'd get if the ads were properly targeted or at least related to my site's overall theme.
I may also earn less per click, depending on what I would have earned for the relevant ads that weren't served. Certainly I can expect my overall revenues to drop--which they'd be doing in any case now that Google is discounting clicks from content sites.
To use another member's term, Google hit many of us with a "double whammy" when it introduced a new ad-targeting algorithm and a variable-discount scheme for advertisers at the same time. With luck, targeting will improve, if only because mistargeted ads hurt Google's revenues along with our own. The discounts for advertisers are another story. If Google has determined that that, say, clicks on forums are worth only 20% as much as clicks on its SERPs, publishers who get most of their clicks from forum pages are going to see a huge drop in revenues no matter how good the ad targeting is.
The new variable-discount scheme represents a major restructuring of publisher compensation, and while it may be tweaked now and then, the basic principle of "X for Google SERPs, Y for product-review pages, Z for forum pages," etc. is unlikely to change--whether the variable pricing is determined by an algorithm or separate bidding for clicks from different sources. The effects of this permanent change will vary from publisher to publisher; some won't be hurt too badly, while others will decide (with good reason) that AdSense is no longer a viable revenue option.
I think the comments about targeting have been on target.
... When I get ads for a Denver auto broker on a European-travel home page, for Iowa visitor attractions on a page about walking tours in Italy,....
As usual EFV has put his finger on the nub of the problem with the above statement.
Google have run this algorithm for 3 weeks now, and I agree are unlikely to change it in the near future.
Only a new participant will force Google to reconsider, and since they have lost so much credibility with Publishers, one assumes that Google have decided that any new participants are still a long way off.
Only a new participant will force Google to reconsider, and since they have lost so much credibility with Publishers, one assumes that Google have decided that any new participants are still a long way off.
Not necessarily. A new participant is likely to focus on bottom-line revenues, not on what he or she would have earned under the old system. In other words, an existing publisher who's seen his revenues drop from $100 a day to $50 may think "My revenues have been cut in half," while the new publisher will think, "I'm suddenly richer by $50 a day."
Also, the publishers who are most likely to quit AdSense are those who are bringing in the least profit for themselves and for Google.
Who knows? Maybe Google figured on something like this happening all along. By launching the network the way it did, Google achieved a dominant market share among publishers. Now that the variable-discount/variable-compensation scheme has been introduced, a Darwinian "survival of the fittest" evolution will take place, and the publishers who remain will be those who are most profitable for Google. Marginal competitors like AdS***r and Kanoodle will be left to fight for the publishers that Google no longer wants.
ADSON*R, which I think will go after the big publishers, and a couple of other ones that will do as EFV says "go after the ones that are dissapointed with Adsense". Nevertheless, I think that Google's dominant position is safe for a while unless a company with Yahoo's might {Overture} decides to go after Google's publishers all out.
The combination of these things would be seen as, uh, HIGHLY SUSPECT in the "real world".
So, I am left with this startling (lol) conclusion: Adsense won't work for us. We don't know why. We can't get any feedback from Google. So, we must stop Adsense.
It's sad because our traffic is targeted and high-quality. Oh, and the irony of all ironies:
WE GET THE BULK OF OUR TRAFFIC FROM ADWORDS FOR THE PAGES WE HAD ADSENSE ON.
Guess we'll pull Adwords, too.
AdSense has some unusual characteristics, but until I can answer that question with a "Yes" or at least an "I think so", AdSense stays on my pages.
Call me crazy, but I see at least three competitors in this area a year from now.
And not a moment too soon. :-)
I can imagine a real opportunity for vertical contextual-ad networks in industries like travel, where there are some well-established IT service companies and the Internet has made huge inroads into traditional sales channels. There must be a lot of small businesses that aren't familiar with Google AdWords but would be receptive to contextual ads if they were approached by an established service provider in their industry.
Please, tell me the industry where people sell their product for what they think it is worth?
So far, my experience with the internet is that variable performanced based payments will outperform those that try to buy traffic on an EPC or EPM level. This means wild fluctuations in payout. The fact that Google's daily totals fluctuate wildly is a good sign in this regards.
I think it is best to evaluate your EPC for Google on a monthly basis. It seems to me that your current problem is that you are checking your stats too often I check my stats too often. I am a stat addict. 24.78% of webmasters develop serious stat addictions.
As for the level of traffic. I don't think you will get really predictable daily payments on any performance based program until you have several hundred thousand users per day.
I see the daily fluctuations as a good sign, and base all decisions on the monthly EPC. Sadly, no-one has ever paid me what I think I am worth.
Some resorts confirmed within hours the wire transfer.
To my surprise not one of those resorts are with Adwords (if they advertised with Adwords I wouldn't take them) and those properties are from Belize, Costa Rica, Bahamas and Jamaica and I got 89 countries still to go.
(My database holds 14500 prorperties with contact details of every sales & marketing director or the GM)
I am expecting more resorts to come forward within the next 2 - 3 days as most resorts have still left a budget due to the fact that we are just in the 2nd quarter of this year and an email to 3500 Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express properties will be going out to the States tomorrow.
If my EPC wouldn't be that low, I wouldn't even have come on the idea to email them all.
A large Adwords buyer from the travel industry no longer buys Adwords because they were bought out by one of the largest etravel companies in the States and I have a very close relation to them as we both make good money in Japan and China.
( This company had a revenue in 2003 of over 100 million dollars, so they must have bought a lot of Adwords because they were all over the publishers sites that has travel content )
If large etravel accounts are leaving Adwords it makes me worry because they weren't replaced by another Adwords buyer and that is one of the reasons why I believe some publishers in the travel industry got hit with low EPC's.
Those guys that get over $10,000 a month I'm sure they have several sites and easily more than 10,000 impressions a day.
LOL
The ads served to your site are based on the likelihood of a conversion for the advertiser as determined by Google.
If there is a good chance of conversion your site is served advertisers in the upper bid range, a low chance of conversion and you get the low bidders.
The factors, which Google uses to determine what makes up a potential high conversion site, are not completely unknown. Think along these lines you will improve CPC.
The factors, which Google uses to determine what makes up a potential high conversion site, are not completely unknown. Think along these lines you will improve CPC.
But doesn't Google track conversions "objectively" after a while? I mean using the methods supplied by AdWords?
So, even if one starts at rock bottom EPC, shouldn't it go to a "fair value" after a while?
It's just my 2nd week of testing it on a B2B content site, but I see that CTR (ie probably targeting, as I don't monitor the individual ads) has improved greatly. Apparently Google was feeding only generic ads initially, then switched to some very good targeting.
Unfortunately, the kind of content I'm testing it on has a very small audience compared to more general interest subjects, so it might not work afterall.
A lot of theories, but no answers.
I mean, is it just me, or does that seem a bit, uh, CRAZY?
Our site, for example was getting (consistently) "X" per click. Then, literally over night our "X" was turned into 1/2 X. Meanwhile, we targeted seriously high-paying keywords. And, although I can't discuss "specifics" let me say that we make more than a number with 3 zeros per month from our marketing. So, the drop overnight in revenue is significant.
It's also disheartening to have to drop something that worked so well. Now, without warning, we're left with NO REPLY FROM GOOGLE, and a disastrous drop in revenue. Meanwhile we serve up more visitors and (as I mentioned before) we get these from GOOGLE ADWORDS.
If this was the "real world" of business Google would have to do things like A) Answer emails, B) provide a trackable method to FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU GET PAID. Can you imagine if you owned restaurant and an ad agency said, "We want to place a sign on your front door to advertise our customer's products. We won't tell you what you'll make. We won't tell you what ads will be run. We won't tell you how we arrive at our payment schedule. And, you'll have to trust us to give you fair reporting. Oh, one more thing - if we don't think your clintele is appropriate for our ads, we won't pay you EVEN if they visit our customers' place of business. Okay, now sign here. Wait, one more thing: You can't talk to anyone else about this. If you do, and we find out, we'll sue you. Now, like we said, sign here, let's get started, okay?"
LOL.
That is why Google doesn't need to provide details. Because the bottom line is what counts, and people (in general) like what they see.
BTW, you should not really care what Google makes unless you want to compete with them... The relationship benefits google... wait for the competitors to come in so that you can have some leverage.
