Gender neutral language impact on SEO?

e.g. using special characters

[LinkedUp]

For our german platform we were thinking about using gender neutral language to address, of course, all of our visitors. There are many options to do so, but ideally we would like to have one unified solution for all of our texts. As there are options using a * or : in the middle of a word to include both male and female form, I was wondering if any of you knows if using those special characters could have a negative impact on SEO or how you solved this for your pages.

The SV generally is higher for the masculin form, but my main concern is that G is seeing those special characters as mistakes and therefore see all of our tags as poor quality content.

[aristotle]

In my opinion using such special characters would be risky, with little to gain and much to lose. A careful writer can be mostly gender neutral without using such devices.

[phranque]

i could see how it would be difficult to use a gender-neutral vocabulary in some languages.
perhaps you could show a generic example of this situation in German language.

[superclown2]

Some people are getting really tired of this whole 'gender neutral' affair. Our own UK prime minister got cheered for stating that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

I'd be careful, you wouldn't want to do a Budweiser.

[not2easy]

If you're selling sweatshirts for example, men and women buy them. Many products are intended for both genders. It is only right to try to find descriptive language that applies to men AND/OR women.

cheered for stating that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

It looks like some are confusing things here. It isn't about which gender a person is or isn't.

[tangor]

It isn't about which gender a person is or isn't.

The OP is asking if there is a deficit on going gender neutral regarding SEO purposes, which pretty much defines gender is/could be important. Some languages have built in masculine/feminine words and meanings. Trying to make those "gender neutral" WILL change meaning for SEO and other purposes. How great an impact that will have can only be determined by experimentation.

As regards products a simple: "Suitable for all genders and identities." is all that is required.

[RedBar]

Don't get sucked-in to the extremely small minority hype, it risks alienating the vast majority.

[explorador]

*An example in context is needed*. I don't speak German and I have no idea what your publications are about, so I don't know what your final text would look like, and yes, this matters.

Is this relevant? yes. Example: in Spanish, while we have both gender ways to express ideas and narratives, NEUTRAL forms are proper of professional academic papers. I have worked as an editor and my opinion in this post comes from experience creating and editing text for web, paper, books, documentaries and newspaper/media, receiving training from professional editors, editors that live, work and stay updated via the RAE (stands for royal language academy for spanish language), and most of these publications (like... 99%) require to follow specific neutral rules because such papers and publications cover: topics, events, facts, and not people and their gender.

To make my comment more comprehensive, in terms of analyzing sources of information, the moment we detect a "you, me, he, she", it means that paper is not serious and not created (or curated) by professionals. I have seen the same applied to english written papers because of their nature. Yeah, at some point or another you can't avoid gender, but that's why I'm saying an example in context is needed. If your webpage is about make up... sure, such pages contain tons of direct personal angles in the narrative, but that's different.

I see no problem, except the new ways of * / e for neutral gender (<- depending your language), such texts are quickly considered cheap, and mostly represent following or adhering to a political view.

[RedBar]

I want to be pedantic about the English language here and this is a perfect example regarding the gender hype:

at some point or another you can't avoid gender, but that's why I'm saying an example in context is needed. If your webpage

One ought to write: at some point or another ONE can't avoid gender, but that's why I'm saying an example in context is needed. If ONE'S webpage

I'm not criticising you explorador could be one's not criticising one explorador !

All this trendy gender nonsense could disappear overnight if one were to do this ...

[lucy24]

RAE (stands for royal language academy for spanish language)

:: pondering the fact that any country would consider itself bound by Spain’s rules, two centuries after achieving independence from Spain ::

I would disagree and say that “you” is often a good way to avoid excluding any readers, because then the text is talking directly to that reader, whoever they may be. And just be glad you’re not stuck in a language that, one way or another, uses gendered verbs.

[explorador]

This is one of the times I don't recognize webmasterworld. @RedBar and lucy24, your interactions here sure sound pedantic with little contribution or focus on the topic, specially considering the example of a language that isn't yours (but it's mine, native). Respectfully, both comments sound quite ignorant, not focusing on the matter or benefiting the original poster.

I stand for what I said, specially asking the OP for example and context. @LinkedUp, diff publications and targets might require diff styles, some are by nature demanded by the topics, some are explicit indicators of professional content while at the same time avoid the you-you, as it's often a sign of ad hominems, or low quality content. Directly addressing genders is often needed for the narrative, but it's also part of cheap narratives with no content (that is, for languages that have explicit gender differences, spanish doesn't have full gender neutral structures, I can't talk about German, that's the end of my example by approximation.

Focal point here: while I'm native spanish with professional training on writing and editing, also knowing english, very little french, and diluted latin that I'm forgetting as days go by... I pointed that I don't speak German, and that I have no idea about the nature of your publications, and so, I can't say that the rules I know apply for your language and publications. Just trowing generic advice (or criticism) without feedback or examples... sound to me like no contribution at all. Saying this in a diff way (in your benefit): I seriously care about my content and it's impact on SE's and the web, I wouldn't take someone else advice without seeing questions or caring about these matters, specifics must be discussed. And I would instead, ask for specifics on a context proper place, like a german content creation forum. I don't exactly understand (by approximation) how this would work here, as if I would ask for specific Spanish content advice here. Other than that... it's been discussed a few times that translations aren't exactly the best idea, and content should be re-generated, that is: written again by a native language speaker, because it matters for the readers and it matters for search engine positioning (if you search this forum, in time you will find those discussions). But anyway, at some point, just hiring a native speaker might now work, because again, at certain level you might need an editor. I have no idea on your specifics, I just explained something based on your hint about german platform, but no I don't know if you are talking about translations, or if you in fact have originally created content in german, those details are missing.

[lucy24]

The original question was not, in fact, about Spanish; it was about German.

It is admittedly annoying that the language has a grammatical neuter--but it can't be used with humans, with the possible exception of small children. (Something tells me modern Germans would not take kindly to the trick of appending a diminutive to everything, making all nouns neuter. And expressing everything as “man” comes across as intolerably stuffy.)

On second thought, “you” works fine in English, but is not so fine in languages that still value the Sie:Du distinction.

[explorador]

The original question was not, in fact, about Spanish; it was about German.

I see you totally missed (or just decided to ignore) the explicit mentions of:
1. Asking for example, in context (for the benefit of the OP), only asked by phranque and me
2. Mention of why something matters, and then the key word "example"
3. I then again insist on the example by approximation, both terms combined

It's sad when people brag about, or criticize language, but decide to just ignore the legit and carefully selected words that compose the messages in benefit of the original poster and the discussion, and then use hand picked words to build an argument just ambitious to "be right while proving others wrong".

LinkedUp: but my main concern is that G is seeing those special characters as mistakes and therefore see all of our tags as poor quality content.

That was my first thought when I read your post, but depending your audience, sometimes typos are useful (on purpose) because people might be using the term in the wrong way. Sometimes this is so common, G picks it as such and introduces it as auto correction, not exactly hurting the search results, but quite the contrary.

LinkedUp: I was wondering if any of you knows if using those special characters could have a negative impact on SEO or how you solved this for your pages.

Yes, no, depends, not exactly. I insist: it depends. There are different types of writing styles, some are more factual, and the use of pronouns and gender is heavily reduced or even non existent, this can be typical of certain type of publications, I tried to explain that in such cases, the first seconds of reading tell people if they should continue reading or not, but again, that's why some of us requested examples and context, but then considering the language, I suggested (hinted) on my previous message to just try exploring this on a german content creation forum (SEO especially).

For my personal knowledge, Germans are well known for being clear on what should be done and what shouldn't be done (perhaps you are familiar with the many common jokes around this). So, in terms of cultural differences (reader), I wonder how flexible they would be (or annoyed) around modifying a publication narrative style in favor of gender, and not the content. I have mentioned in my posts both search engine and readers, because at the end of the day you are writing for people, and it matters. I can't assume you are German, sounds to me like... nope, I don't know. The relevancy of my initial words on this specific paragraph would be immediately identified by a german person, that's why I mention the jokes, in positive, wondering if you know about that. Germans are known for trying to do what they suppose to do. One of the most famous jokes/tales is how many germans won't even cross the street when no cars are coming but you get the red light, I have read multiple answers, some germans won't even provide an answer, it's... not supposed to happen, some would say "well, sometimes this and that", some say "it's a civil duty", and some say "you suppose to be an example for others, specially kids", that's why to me, at least, a lot of questions come to mind.

[LinkedUp]

Thanks to all of you first for the different opinions and sorry for my late answer.

We operate in the niche of holiday camps, so a good example could be the following: "In eurem Feriencamp passen geschulte Betreuer auf euch auf" Meaning "In your holiday camp trained supervisors will take care of you"

The gender issue wouldn't adress the main keyword (holiday camp) in this sentence since it will stay the same. But the word supervisor in german is possible to use in the masculine (Betreuer), feminin (Betreuerin), gender-neutral (Betreuende) or with a Gender-sign (Betreuer:in). My main concern is about the 4th option using a colon inside of a word as Im worried G would see all of our Content of poor quality thinking this is a grammar mistake.

And yup, Im quite familiar with the jokes, but I like them as they are, at least from my personal view, seem to be quite true :D

[explorador]

LinkedUp: or with a Gender-sign (Betreuer:in). My main concern is about the 4th option using a colon inside of a word as Im worried G would see all of our Content of poor quality thinking this is a grammar mistake.

Sounds like a reasonable concern to me. Both the use of the letter e (like in Argentina) or the use of a colon in your example, distort the language, perhaps (in my opinion) the colon does this even more. I don't know how search engines would react, in my view... not positively. But mostly, to your audience, this mostly imply (as said above) that you are taking a stand about a social-political matter.

Added later: did a quick search about german neutral writing, found a few articles and the explanation of the * (and other stuff), some articles advice went around what I actually described above regarding certain papers (by nature requiring to avoid gender and focus on the topic, matter, job positions, etc). I also found echo to what's been said here, that it's still polemic and the use (or absence of use) in articles hints a supposed social political stand. I guess it's a long way to go to reach your final conclusion.

[Milanex]

Hello,

John Müller from G said, that gender neutral words are for G synonyms:

[support.google.com...]

Greetings
Milanex

[rustybrick]

John spoke about this twice before...

[seroundtable.com...]
and more recently
[seroundtable.com...]

[tangor]

Aside: while the OP question was the use of punctuation to neuter gender in language, one also needs to consider the impact that might have with the reading audience. Language does not evolve in decades, it take a lot longer than that to become mainstream.