Google vs Apple

[javelin]

Irregardless of what people think about Google I will put something here that shows the future of search. Someone earlier mentioned Apple coming up with search, well they already have Spotlight and this is the framework upon which all is being built by them. What does this mean for us and Google?

The problem with Google is that its architecture is now built upon a profit model via ads. Spotlight is an altogether different system that is presently ad free, which will likely change.

Google uses the content + links and other data to build relevancy for serp results. Spotlight uses the user metadata from the users of Apple products in order to build content around what that person may desire. It is beginning to be used like more traditional serps but its infrastructure is designed to reach further and wrap around how a user works with different products.

This should be eye opening for anyone involved within SEO. This is a step into the future of where it is all going and Google is way behind. Not only are they behind but they will crash and burn if they do not fix the present model they are robbing content creators from.
[rankscience.com...]

[Brett_Tabke]

I disagree. Apple has less user data than Google has available.

- Analytics for 16 years
- Chrome for over a decade.
- Two decades of search data.
- Two decades of user behavior data on the web and in search.
- Decade and a half of user behavior in docs.

Apple has a slice of that, but doesn't have the all important analytics data. They could be scarfing up some with Safari without saying (we know other browser manufactures do some).

All-in-all, Apple has a fraction the knowledge that Google has available.
Apple does have a little data that google doesn't have (Apple user behavior on desktop/laptop), but I still think Google is so far ahead.

Lastly, Google *cares* about search - they really really care about search. Apple really cares about hardware and seems only to tolerate software development.

[javelin]

Oh I definitely agree with you 100% in everything youve stated... but... theres a but LOL
The more important take away for me is the overall general direction things are moving towards. The mechanics built around how Spotlight works is where things are shifting. Remember when social media aps began to pick up steam and get popular? This is a bridge between the world of search and our interaction with many different kinds of apps. There has always been a divide in those worlds.

Now as for Apple specifically, they do lack in more ways than we probably know and in more ways than you mention. Nevertheless, they do have the ability to develop this into something. The question is, do they have the will to do so? There are ways to scrape a lot of data from the net beyond what they have collected. How many of us use Ahrefs for similar data? The harder part I think would be building the infrastructure and proper algo for the brain.

I do believe Google cares about search. Ive never discounted that. I just think these days they care more about their bottom line. I read an article not long ago about how the devs in the late 90s were against the idea of ads saying that if they allowed them eventually the engine would serve the ads rather than organic serps. That is where we are today as the organic serps get left further behind.

The real problem is the world has become too Google oriented much like it became so Windows oriented. A Linux guy like me hates both Windows and Mac, but its okay if you enjoy a sandbox experience. To me that is Google, the sandbox experience. If Apple, or someone like them were to make that leap to what we see developing it would be HUGE! Thus far Apple is the only one out there laying the groundwork for it to take place at some point in the future.

That alone makes me suspect that they could be considering that option. So I give you this, where would Spotlight shine? When you can bridge apps as we know it AND AR with these [macrumors.com...]

You create a world that is integrated with the web at every level. Obviously this is not going to happen tomorrow. Yet I do believe this is where they are slowly going.

[JesterMagic]

Spotlight sounds just as creepy in terms of privacy as Google's way of doing business.

Google has many issues and the monopoly they have on search needs to be dealt with.

Apple is all about their walled garden. Just take a look at the fight they are having about standardizing charging cables or their lack of support for RCS texting standard. This is just the stuff that is easy to find, I can just imagine what goes on behind the scenes.

Google's monopoly on search needs to be broken and maybe Apple is part of that solution as we need more large players in the game.

That being said allowing Apple to control search as well behind their walled garden will just give them more control.

We can't trust these large corporations who have large control over the devices we use and the content we see to do what is in the best interest of their users (which is understandable as they are driven by profit). That is why they need to be broken up and control given back to the user in terms of what software they want to install on their devices.

[RedBar]

The quality of G's SERPs does seem to vary too much at times however is the biggest problem for most here the huge quantity of ads the first couple of pages have?

If G were even a free newspaper would people bother to read it since all it is now is a classified ads sheet with a few freebie listings thrown in, mostly in no quality-specific order.

I seem to remember a few years ago, probably the mid-late noughties, that G was taken to task by the EU for the amount of ads it was carrying and they did reduce them. That amount of advertising was hardly anything compared to now, what happened to that "agreement"?

[javelin]

Spotlight sounds just as creepy in terms of privacy as Google's way of doing business.

I agree, not to mention the new Apple way of sniffing your phones data for "questionable material" that has been employed lol. I mean could it possibly get any creepier?

Google has many issues and the monopoly they have on search needs to be dealt with.

Yes indeed. But unfortunately Apple is the only heavy hitter to be out there that could possibly impact this anytime soon. That is unless MIcrosoft manages to swing the bat harder but still... Bing isnt exactly our serp savior.

Apple is all about their walled garden.

This would have to change for their search options. I hate the walled garden, always have and thus why I never went with their products. Ive never owned an Apple anything. Get a laptop from a dumpster and load Linux :-)

The quality of G's SERPs does seem to vary too much at times however is the biggest problem for most here the huge quantity of ads the first couple of pages have?

If G were even a free newspaper would people bother to read it since all it is now is a classified ads sheet with a few freebie listings thrown in, mostly in no quality-specific order.

I really dont believe anyone would use their engine now if it were not so integrated into the product world. From their phones to app products what can we touch that doesnt involve them? Its a real problem. I dont think it will change until a new competitor comes. I really dont think further financial losses will change it. They are too well embedded into our lives.

[JesterMagic]

Google is a wall garden as well. Even if Apple gets into search they will not make much of a dent. More than MS but not enough to make a difference.

The ONLY WAY I can think of to bring competition back is by allowing FAIR competition on these phone platforms from other companies. The way to do this is by legally forcing Phone Suppliers and OS developers for Android, iOS, Windows, etc is to require them to display options for installing different apps when the OS is first launched/installed.

When you buy a new phone (Apple or Android) and you first boot it up users should pick from a randomized list for the following apps and settings:
- default search engine
- App Store
- search bar app
- mail app
- maps app
- texting/messaging app
- contacts app
- Calendar app
- etc.

Giving people options up front will slowly break the stranglehold these companies have as competition increases. Of course their will be stuff to figure out (like what apps get listed for what) but it is the only way I see to eventually bring competition back.

[RedBar]

is to require them to display options for installing different apps when the OS is first launched/installed.

I agree BUT so many mobile users haven't a clue as to what they've got and how to use it. This past month I have supplied 7 same model new phones to friends and every single one of them were all set-up the same since none of them knew how to do it!

Sure they can all use their phones however beyond their Apps etc, not a clue as to its capabilities and, realistically, why should they, they're not a geek like me? Honestly, one of them wanted a replacement like-for-like that had been out of production since 2015. Most users simply want a phone that works and has the Apps their mates use, going back to pre-smartphone usage ain't going to happen.

[javelin]

I agree BUT so many mobile users haven't a clue as to what they've got and how to use it.

This is very true. Its systemic across other devices as well. The whole Windows and Mac community are really in the same boat.

The only way I could see truly breaking the strangle these companies have is an idea that will never happen. You would need an open source environment... but someone needs to own the hardware to run it all. There will always be a gatekeeper.

So, while that will never happen I think we need Apple to compete as its better than nothing. We also need others to join in that fight. To me this is about more than our business success, its how information is controlled. No human in history could have imagined holding that much power.

[RedBar]

We also need others to join in that fight.

How when no one wants to take it on when they're using it to their own advantage?

In the 90s the big brand names were not interested in The Net, it was geeky, and of course the dot com bust really really sent feathers flying, big companies really didn't have a clue about The Net BUT their staff did.

Which company was the biggest game-changer? EBay, Amazon, possibly Facebook with its ease of use and fun factor, I know I'm missing several influential companies here but you get my drift, easy-to-use sites came along and Joe Public started to use them, for many these are now their default options, it's been hard work for them to get there but now they are reaping the benefits since given the option of established v unrecognised, who does one go with?

We do not need a competitor to Google, we need something new / different.

[JesterMagic]

>> We do not need a competitor to Google, we need something new / different.
That is very unlikely when they control the major OS for phones (and buys out the other one to be the default search engine)

These companies are here to stay for a long while and while technology will eventual replace itself (thinking telephones here and how they originally worked) the US gov did have to step in and break them up.

This situation reminds me of the Netscape fight with MS about Internet Explorer.

We are starting to some kinks in the armor. A few companies like Spotify, Match Group, etc are legally starting to challenge the ridiculous 30% charge Google and Apple levy on most purchases in their respective app store.

[javelin]

I have no idea how this revolution of search will take place, or even if it can. Certainly how these companies control both software and hardware needs to be solved.

Some keep suggesting government involvement to break them up. That might help. It could also hurt. If competition cannot step in to fix this and all we have to rely on is government involvement I think we are pretty much toast anyway.

Comparing this to how gov stepped in with phone companies.... well what I see today is little different in terms of titans controlling our world. The technology is what made things better for us getting rid of ridiculous things like long distance calling charges to the next zip code over. I do know this is all insanity.

[RedBar]

I have no idea how this revolution of search will take place, or even if it can.

Does it need to?

This may sound crazy but how often do you use search? As a geek probably several times a day, but as Joe Normal I do not see people using phones in bars etc anywhere near as much as they used to. At one time they were everywhere flashing off etc, these days, very little interaction except parties etc.

When someone is comfortable using a "supplier / provider" they do tend to stick with them which makes search very less attractive. One only has to look at Amazon, it is definitely NOT the lowest-cost place to buy BUT they do provide an excellent service etc.

I think we're all missing the "next great thing", it has to be simple, that's why WE can't see it, we're too close!

[javelin]

Does it need to?

I believe it does need to. This is obviously my opinion and it may not be a popular one. If only for the reason to prevent a stranglehold on information, publication, and to retain some measure of freedom of press. The gatekeepers of information are the gatekeepers to our societies. I trust no single institution to the level of volume that Google itself controls. That alone is madness to my thinking.

I truly see everyones point that Apple has very little to offer in terms of competition at this moment. Also the points of ease of function and use being that a user will access via device of choice in their hands and whatever search option is on it is clear. Mobile search exceeds desktop and there is no doubt about that.

It is also for these same reasons that I think Apple may be our only hope at future competition if they were to take up that challenge. No matter what, where we stand presently is a sad situation with no clear solution. What is taking place in the serps daily for too many small businesses is punishing and will not change anytime soon.

As for that next great thing that "we" cannot see... I agree we are too close to see it. If only we could lol $$$

[JesterMagic]

>> This may sound crazy but how often do you use search?
Many more people than you think. They use the Google Discovery bar on there phones to check out the weather, sports, products, etc, talk to their smart speakers, search for stuff on google maps, or do searches on Youtube (yes it is not specifically Google Search but they do own it).

>> It is also for these same reasons that I think Apple may be our only hope at future competition if they were to take up that challenge.
Doubtful they would get very far. Google controls way to much of the Android eco system and what goes on it (just like Apple controls theirs). The only real solution is for government to step in and put rules in place that would allow competition to flourish (I mentioned how in a previous post). Unfortunately governments move really slow and real competition would take a long time to develop since Google now has been entrenched for so long.

Something also needs to be done with search itself and control the amount of ads and how much info they can include in a snippet and widgets. These last few years especially Google's main goal is to present more info in search and keep visitors on Google properties. Search is pretty much like a utility now and having one company control it is as javelin states insane.

[engine]

I'd love to see Apple challenge the market with a search service, but I doubt it'll happen. Apple may create some kind of search, but to rival Google, the phrase most use, is not likely, imho.
Microsoft Bing has been at it for years, and where is it?
@JesterMagic sums it up nicely. Google has a stranglehold with so many ways to deliver it services, all conveniently wrapped up in a cuddly service, such as maps, android (being the big one), etc.
The best anyone can hope, at this stage, is the search service to be available as a white label that others can attach their own ads, imho. Similar to Google's custom search.

[Pjman]

Simply put, I would expect expect Apple Search to be the Apple Maps of search engines.

Cute, but nothing you are going to rely on.