Google Updates and SERP Changes - January 2020

[seomotionz]

The following 11 messages were cut out of thread at: https://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4974557.htm [webmasterworld.com] by robert_charlton - 10:10 am on Jan 2, 2020 - (PDT -8)

20 years of data show that updates have created MUCH more than a "twitch" in traffic.

Its not a twitch if it costs you a significant amount of money.

[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 6:20 pm (utc) on Jan 2, 2020]
[edit reason] cleanup after split to new thread [/edit]

[RedBar]

OK, GA is free, however why use a data service that is provided by a company that takes all your data, process it, use it, abuse it, mess around with it, present it in different ways and then kill you if you refuse to pay for their services to advertise your stuff you have provided to them for FREE?

[hopepro]

I'm seeing non relevant search results and also increased in spammy sites with scraped contents altogether with sites with the lowest quality appear.

In addition to this, keyword related to 2020 show only 2018 and 2019 results and old contents

For my site, it dropped totally of 7% drop from Nov but there were about 30% drop from OCT

Many big sites I've monitored dropped drastically

Ranking jumps everyday. except for the older contents that we published before OCT 2019

1. Google AI is trying learn? Cos I don't think AI will know everything from the start
2. Another Algo change before NOV 6th? Traffic from my site was getting better from Mid DEC-6th JAN and I'm seeing fluctuations starting from 7th JAN

Anyone experiences the same, please let me know. Thanks

[seomotionz]

Another Algo change before NOV 6th? Traffic from my site was getting better from Mid DEC-6th JAN and I'm seeing fluctuations starting from 7th JAN

I have seen it. First we thought that it was post Christmas and New year's fluctuations & its ripple effects. But then as this week is proceeding we are thinking it otherwise.

[BushyTop]

One thing that I keep noticing (and its something that Bill Lambert mentions in a lot of his posts) is that when there is an update and it's [in progress], our ranking dramatically improves. Bill describes this as the filters being dropped.

therefore - am I to assume that I am under penality, given that these 'filters' dramatically impact my site so much? Or do I just assume that the direction that google is trying to head in isn't necessarily something that that I am getting penalised for - more that its just something that I am not doing well - and that when these updates are made, the algo values my pages based on a 2017 or early '18 algorithm?

[glakes]

when there is an update and it's [in progress], our ranking dramatically improves. Bill describes this as the filters being dropped.

Many of us experience the same issues, and I doubt most of us are penalized. I think it's more like Fred watching a Penguin getting knocked over by a Panda when a Hummingbird is buzzing around his ear. Fred looks up only to see a Pigeon flying over a Possum. Meanwhile RankBrain attempts to make sense of it all. It's like lipstick on a pig, though the lipstick Google is applying is in many layers and all different colors - leaving the end result looking like some horrible mixed up concoction resembling a five year old's finger painting.

In an effort to produce the perfect search results, or harvest as much money out of each query, Google lost sight of the basics a long time ago. While it may be working for Google, it definitely is not working for my business. So long as Google can keep their users engaged, I don't see it changing. However, Google is running out of wiggle room to profit from the search results. They'll reach a point when even minor adjustments will impact public perception - whether it be businesses that spend money on ads and/or users attempting to find something in search.

Did anyone else get a Google survey invite recently? I'm talking about the one hour phone survey where Google cuts you out a $250 check for your time. I used to get Adwords vouchers right after major updates, but now it seems surveys are the new thing. My guess is they want to see how killing off converting traffic impacts ones desire to spend or use the survey as a platform to plant spending seeds to encourage businesses to open their wallet. I guess Google doesn't quite understand if they send little to no converting traffic then businesses won't spend.

[hopepro]

@BushyTop

You mean when there's an algo update, the possible penalized site will get improved in ranking?

What do you mean by Filters by the way?

Thanks

[mosxu]

@glakes

“one hour phone survey where Google cuts you out a $250 check for your time”

They what to learn what is wrong with your psychological profile. Why don’t you believe in their traffic?

[glakes]

They what to learn what is wrong with your psychological profile. Why don’t you believe in their traffic?

That may indeed be the case. When traffic took an even sharper turn for the worse at the beginning of November, I cut ad spending by around 40%. Fast forward to the present, and our ad spending has been cut by a total of 75%. Google needs to realize that by sending so many tire kickers, they've kicked all the air out of the tires (and my patience). The bottom line is Google needs to justify spending money with them, and they're not. Therefore, my wallet closes.

Before the November update I allowed the spending because there was a mix of organic conversions that offset the losses in paid. Since organic conversions dried up in November, nobody internally can put forth a valid argument for me to justify the continued ad spending since Google's ads haven't been able to stand on their own two legs for a number of years. I think everyone inside my company knows it's best to not even talk to me about Google and Adwords without a damn good reason and real data to back it up.

[Robert Charlton]

One thing that I keep noticing (and its something that Bill Lambert mentions in a lot of his posts) is that when there is an update and it's [in progress], our ranking dramatically improves. Bill describes this as the filters being dropped.

Again, Bull Lambert's claimed official status has been debunked both by Barry and by John Mueller. While he has no inside information, he may or may not be a good guesser or seasoned observer of Google. Even a clock that is not running is right twice a day. That he is purporting to be someone else, though, does make me suspicious about his underlying agenda.

Re "his" official status, read... .

IMO: Bill Lambert Is Not A Googler Or Google Spy
Sep 27, 2019
by Barry Schwartz
https://www.seroundtable.com/bill-lambert-is-not-a-googler-or-google-spy-28286.html [seroundtable.com]

[BushyTop]

Our conversion is down 69% today versus the previous week... so so annoying

[seomotionz]

I guess Google doesn't quite understand if they send little to no converting traffic then businesses won't spend.

Well google may think that if we don't get good traffic then we will spend money. I got an email alright but I don't think it was of $250.

@Robert Charlton I was about to refer it too.

Our conversion is down 69% today versus the previous week... so so annoying

@BushyTop Be optimistic. It will change soon.

[BushyTop]

Thanks @seomotionz - I try!

[NickMNS]

@Robert Charlton

Again, Bill Lambert's claimed official status has been debunked both by Barry and by John Mueller.

Are you really going to believe Barry and John Mueller? We all know they can't be trusted, they closely work with or directly for Google.

he may or may not be a good guesser or seasoned observer of Google. Even a clock that is not running is right twice a day.

It is neither of these things. It is in fact far simpler yet far more worrying as this same tactic is now frequently used not only in this broad discussion but in other areas of society. That is, the statements made are framed in such a manner as to insinuate a point of view that is broadly held (in this case, Google is out to get the Webmaster) and the actual substance of the claim or prediction is sufficiently vague and broad such that it allows the reader to fit his/her own situation to it and also most importantly the claim can never under any circumstances be shown to be false. By simply logic something that is not false, is true. Simple logic is often flawed logic, because something which can never be false can also never be true.

So by discrediting sources and facts that would otherwise falsify a statement, there is an attempt to ensure that the statement remains unfalsifiable, and as such not false.

[mosxu]

@glakes

Are you using your own company GTINs?

[whoa182]

When Bill said to stop Google from crawling your website and to have it deindexed, that is when you probably should've stopped listening.

[glakes]

Are you using your own company GTINs?

Yes. And we also are a supplier to the company in question, other fortune 100 companies along with various Government agencies.

I get surveys all the time, but this one is different and I'd love to pin down the reason why.

[mosxu]

@glakes

Are your GTINs appear on more popular sites or very popular sites as you mentioned or products are not supplied for resale?

[glakes]

About half appear on popular sites while distribution for the remaining are tightly controlled. Are you thinking it's a ploy for Google to reel us in to list (Adwords) the remaining SKUs?

[Robert Charlton]

NickNMS, re your comments to me about what Googlers I trust, etc... While the issues are off topic for this thread, they come up often. I'll answer your questions, but I won't pursue any further discussions about them, if that's OK, as I'm jammed for time... and I really don't want to disrupt this thread. We also prefer not to discuss personalities on the forum.

First, I can't tell whether you're being ironic, or whether they're actual comments and/or questions. Forums, email, etc, are not very good for discussing attitudes or "tone of voice."

Are you really going to believe Barry and John Mueller? We all know they can't be trusted, they closely work with or directly for Google.

Who's we?

Barry is one of the most trustworthy people I know. I don't think either he would lie to preserve a relationship with Google, nor do I think he would ever be put into that position by Danny, with whom he's had a long and close personal and professional association.

I might on rare occasions criticize Barry's choice of wording in a headline, but that's more a matter of style than of integrity, and he's "selling newspapers", so to speak. Barry is a great journalist and will pursue a story when answers aren't forthcoming from Google, and we all owe him a debt of gratitude.

I don't know John personally, but my gut tells me he's completely straightforward. As with Matt Cutts, there is "secret sauce" that he can't discuss. Matt had a charming manner about openly refusing to discuss the recipe of the secret sauce, and had a rare quality of being able to go into the "philosophy" of why Google might make one choice rather than another. John is probably more evasive when the recipe comes up, but I've never seen him lie about it. John is becoming more skiflful in framing answers over time. I think all of the people you mention try to be as helpful as they can be, without giving away the keys to the kingdom.

I should add that none of these people are going to to jeopardize the reputation of a giant company that runs on trust by lying about it. It doesn't make sense.

Re your second set of comments...

...the statements made are framed in such a manner as to insinuate a point of view that is broadly held (in this case, Google is out to get the Webmaster)...

...I'm afraid you've lost me, as there are so many indefinite antecedents going on that I truly can't pin down what you're saying about whom. FWIW, note that degrees of irony, etc, if there are any, can often lose me, as they depend on agreement about the answer to the question in the first place, and life isn't that consistent.

I do feel that John's statements about Bull Lambert are very straightforward, and I don't doubt for a second that he is telling the truth as he knows it. I see no reason to question his answer.

Anyway... I don't want to take this thread any further off topic.


And, re what an algo does...

Re BushyTop's thoughts in noticing that...

...when there is an update and it's [in progress], our ranking dramatically improves. Bill describes this as the filters being dropped.

I don't know (or care) what the precise mechanism is, because that's likely to change with technology, but, as I understand the implied question...

...I've always felt that Google needs to let some "bad" results through initially that it may later intend to skim off, because to calibrate an algo it seems to me that it's always more accurate to nibble back on what you can see (ie, to trim back bad results that are visible), rather than try to hit it exactly, because if you don't see any bad results, then you don't know whether you've hit it exactly or whether you've trimmed back too far. I hope this makes sense. Over the years, I think that many of us have discussed this kind of thing... and it doesn't take a Google insider to figure this out. It's almost just common sense.

Hoping all this helps.

[mosxu]

@glakes

The only thing I know is that deals are taking place between google and big advertisers so I would worry if they sell your GTINs ...

I know in my market when certain advertisers are promoted I get no sales meaning my ads hardly show to any buyers except a few tricks

[NickMNS]

@Robert Charleton,
I agree let's not spend time on this here. But briefly what I thought was obvious, clearly wasn't. My first comment was meant to be sarcastic or facetious. I know sarcasm does not come across in writing, but I wrongly assumed that the second comment would make it evident.

In regards to Barry Schwartz and John Mueller. I don't know either personally, but I have no reason to doubt your comments and have full respect for what both these individuals do.

I have started a thread in Foo with a detailed response to your post, hopefully you can take the time to read it and respond.
[webmasterworld.com...]

[MayankParmar]

Not seeing any changes here or for sites in my niche.

[BushyTop]

@Robert Charlton while I appreciate your comments a couple of things stand out to me. To my mind, Bill Lambert hasn't been debunked. While he too can be evasive and offer no real substance to the content of these updates, there's no getting away from the fact that he seems to have the innate ability to nail the dates of the big shifts, weeks in advance. There's no luck in that. The de-index advance is problematic though and deeply concerning. I hope that no one out there followed that advice, because it should not have been given.

Secondly - and this is a real frustration for me, I have a real problem with Mueller's guidance To compare him to Cutts, who like you say, showed some warmth and understanding of webmaster's frustration is farcical to me. The two main issues with Mueller are that I find him incredibly conflicting. While one month something might not be important and can be ignored, the next it can prove pertinent. This is a massive issue. Additionally, his dry sense of humor isn't fitting to the role. He needs to remember that while some of the questions he receives might seem 'stupid', he might be better served showing some patience with people and remembering that alot of these changes affect people's lives. Dramatic, but that shouldn't be understated. We're all just trying to make a living afterall.

[SweetPotato]

I discovered you can filter "Google images" traffic (under performance) on GSC. Look how i'm doing!
[i.imgur.com...]
From 100k+ Impressions to 0. And my images are still there, still crawable, no technical issues.


Another site, the opposite:
[i.imgur.com...]

I don't even....

So i don't know what i'm doing and i'm a genius both at the same time.

[NickMNS]

@Sweet Potato are you using any hotlink protection for your images?

[glakes]

@mosxu

My industry is so narrowly defined that if Google wants to put the big squeeze on us then they must be hard pressed. And maybe they are. The only way I'll ever know what they are up to is to participate in their survey, and I'll likely pass on that. This time of the year is always hectic with taxes, and the headaches inventory causes, coupled with the day to day grind. Regardless, Google is attempting to squeeze us as the traffic we are getting from them is horrible. Fortunately Google's reach does not seem to impact other marketplaces where new consumers are still finding us. B2B seems steady, and thankfully Google can't control the phone, fax and email orders.

If time permits this afternoon, I'll cut our Adwords spending even more to match the new lows in converting Google traffic. This will give Google's AI something else to compute over the weekend. Send crap traffic then get less money. LOL

[seomotionz]

Fortunately Google's reach does not seem to impact other marketplaces where new consumers are still finding us. B2B seems steady, and thankfully Google can't control the phone, fax and email orders.

Don't jinx it. Its the reason we are still surviving.

Anyway struggle for traffic is on again today. But atleast the traffic which we received today are not so bad. Any statements from Google yet?

[RedBar]

Fax!?!?

I took out our last fax machine a couple of years ago when that line hadn't been used for at least 3 years.

Don't tell me you're still using telex as well? :-)

[glakes]

Fax!?!?

I prefer orders from repeat customers to be sent email, but one particular company we sell to prefers faxing their orders over. They are a publicly traded company with $3.5 billion in annual revenue.

[RedBar]

I think all the local doctors in my area still use fax for sending prescriptions through to pharmacies, crazy.