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Google Says Not to Worry About Salience Score

         

iamlost

4:01 am on Dec 27, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Barry, in Google On Salience Score Matter For SEO [seroundtable.com], 26-December-2019 asks Have you seen SEOs talk about salience scores before?

Hi Barry, nothing new to see here, except once again SEOs are jumping on, running after a bandwagon going where they know not...

See Dixon Jones aka WebmasterWorld Moderator dixonjones (sidejob as Global Ambassador for Majestic :)) 26-February-2019 YouTube video Improve content salience using using Google's NLP AI [m.youtube.com]
Note: yup, 10 months ago, folks!
Content salience (also described as content relevance) is a major factor in SEO. Google has a tool that helps you see how they measure this metric. This video shows you how you can use it to improve your content without the need to code.

And he made the video because of Google’s API. The actual topic of salience in sociolinguistics and NLP/U is far from new. Even older than the API. Even older than Google :)

Given that SEOs are still genuflecting to keywords when search generally (Google specifically since 2010) have been shifting to entities (but not SEO tools; tools driving mindset rather than reality)... the only saving grace for most SEOs will be yet another limited Google tool that they, once again, will largely misapply as misunderstanding the underlying theory/purpose... tool shiny, tool good...

I first encountered NLP in the 1980s while playing about with natural language data base interfaces... read Peter Trudgill’s 1986 book Dialects in Contact learned ...greater salience is assumed to cause greater meta-linguistic awareness...

The overarching view has been that as a concept salience is difficult to define and therefore hard to quantify.

Google has released several papers et al since at least 2012 (earliest I have): A New Entity Salience Task with Millions of Training Examples [static.googleusercontent.com] (PDF) by Jesse Dunietz and Dan Gillick.

Googles Natural Language API has several analysis options: trust SEOs to ‘suddenly’ overheatedly fixate on one particular output that has been discussed publicly for, ummm, quite some time already...
Note: Google appears to have a specific constrained definition of salience; sensible but may make it harder for those who might conflate the broader sociolinguistic usage with Googles... assuming anyone else likes to understand just what they are mucking about with... and goes a researching...

Ah well the New Year looks fair to spontaneously generate a deluge of bloggerati explanations followed by a spate of conference slide shows... I must get in an extra supply of popcorn...

phranque

6:12 am on Dec 28, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



on a slow news day, barry extrapolated from john's offhand response to someone's irrelevant question to john's non-sequitur reply to a tweet he obviously misunderstood.

rustybrick

2:53 am on Dec 29, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I am a failure...

iamlost

4:51 pm on Dec 29, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



:)
A failure, Barry?
Absolutely not. You are the:
* King of the Roundtable...
* Concatenator of What’s Happening for the industry...
* Knowledgeable reporter on events able to actually call up the Knights Templar of Google and get answers (hidden between the lines)...
* Number One Icon on my browser webdev list..

I must admit to letting a cranky amount of eggnog influence editorial judgement. Please accept my apology. No personal aspersions were meant. Whatsoever. Surprise at finding yet another hole in the Swiss cheese of SEO caused an involuntary exclamation. Plus the homemade eggnog. Gotta keep a closer eye on the eggnog...

That said the info is worth understanding. Especially if it gets folks off keywords and onto entities. Which would get them conversant with 2012...

iamlost

4:53 pm on Dec 29, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Note: I see mods are channeling G and rewriting titles. Stop mucking with the click bait will ya?! :)

rustybrick

2:16 am on Dec 30, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



@iamlost - really all good. I was honestly being a bit sarcastic. I love your posts here and I've been following you for 15+ years here.

nomis5

6:57 pm on Dec 30, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Now I am really worried about the Salience Score.

aristotle

1:40 am on Dec 31, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Well I don't understand a good part of this thread, but get the impression that something might or might not have come from the horse's mouth, although maybe indirectly from it rather than straight from it. But then most likely nobody will understand a good part of this post either.

DixonJones

12:01 pm on Dec 31, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Thanks for referencing that video.

>>Given that SEOs are still genuflecting to keywords when search generally (Google specifically since 2010) have been shifting to entities (but not SEO tools; tools driving mindset rather than reality)... the only saving grace for most SEOs will be yet another limited Google tool that they, once again, will largely misapply as misunderstanding the underlying theory/purpose... tool shiny, tool good...<<


Fully agree with this. Most tools (Google or otherwise) have largely failed to change with the tide. An exception is the (recent) influx of tools to help schema markup. Makes me excited for 2020 though... I started this game in 1999 looking at links when everyone else was looking at keyword metatags. Took about 10 years for links to become mainstream, in spite of the PageRank algorithm being public from around 2001 or so.

Aside: If the salience score is something Google thinks we should not care about, perhaps they should not give us a shiny tool to break :)

(Disclosure: Still a Majestic fanboy, but I also invested in an entity based tech, which another moderator may choose to edit me for saying) :)

aristotle

12:21 pm on Dec 31, 2019 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Well the thread is worth reading just for the language:

running after a bandwagon going where they know not.

trust SEOs to ‘suddenly’ overheatedly fixate

conflate the broader sociolinguistic usage

spontaneously generate a deluge of bloggerati explanations

greater meta-linguistic awareness

The overarching view

actually call up the Knights Templar of Google
and get answers (hidden between the lines)...

another hole in the Swiss cheese of SEO

Conjecture: the Knights Templar of Google = horse's mouth

iamlost

9:17 pm on Jan 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



As DixonJones says:
If the salience score is something Google thinks we should not care about, perhaps they should not give us a shiny tool to break

Be careful.

This API is about as insightful and useful as was TBPR, which means that it likely will be:
* misunderstood especially the differences between salience in the literature, as applied by Google, and as shown in the API;
* misconstrued in repackaged snake oil offerings;
* misused as a tool revenue stream.
* misapplied by 99.44%.
Yes, I have abysmal faith in the broader SEO community.

However, it also may jolt a few webdevs to a better understanding of entities and how a SE might use NLP to determine page topic coherence, relationship, relevance, sentiment, etc.

It will be intriguing to see if and who and which of the community and tools make the shift to 2013 and beyond...
Note: yes, I am intrigued by DixonJones’ “entity based tech” investment as all extant I know are academic research or private proprietary...

Who and how many will simply utilise the NL API as they do GoAn... locked in and limited...