What is the difference between a PBN & a partner website network?

[battlestar123]

So I was just watching this Matt Cutts video from 2014 on cross linking between partner websites: [youtube.com...] Here is another Matt Cutts video (but older) where he talks about cross linking partner websites: [youtube.com...]

As per the video, according to Matt Cutts, if you cross link 3 to 5 of your partner websites (such that you form a partner website network), it is probably acceptable by Google. But according to Matt Cutts in this video, if you have 30 partner websites and you crosslink all of them,then you may get penalized. While the most recent video Matt Cutts did on this subject is from 2014, I assume that a lot of the original code in Google's algorithm for handling partner website networks and PBNs today is still similar to 5 years ago.

Assuming you are the only one using the PBN (it's actually private to you, nobody else is using it besides you), what is the difference between a PBN and a partner website network? Isn't a partner website network just a form of a PBN with more obvious footprints?

[n0tSEO]

It's a matter of purpose and relevance. Do the network sites exist only to give backlinks to a specific "money" site? Are the crosslinks relevant to the topic?

For example, say you have multiple interests and devote a website to each and every of them. If you like football, ballet dancing, PHP programming and cookie baking, where is it that makes sense to link each of these websites one another? A scenario that comes to mind is a page on your PHP programming site where you explain how your passion for the two sports and cookie baking led to the development of this cool set of PHP programs to manage your sports achievements and training, cookie recipes, etc. And you link to the pages of these sites where you have that anecdote that led you to these ideas.

This is what a partner network does. It a good thing when you have more areas of interest that you want to cover and you want to give visibility to each area-based site. Things tend to be honest and even among the sites.

A PBN is generally built around the goal of boosting search engine rankings for one website; the other websites act as "service sites" that provide that link. This page explains the structure of a PBN more in detail: [pbnfox.com...]

Note: I own and run multiple websites, and I used to have hundreds years ago that self-sustained through advertising. The crosslinks were always relevant but sometimes Google still didn't like it. They couldn't always tell a PBN from a partner site.

[battlestar123]

Thanks for your answer n0tSEO. Maybe I should have worded my question better. What I meant was, what is the difference from Google's algorithm's standpoint between a PBN and a partner website network? Assuming the PBN is purely private to you and you don't allow anybody else to use it, and the partner website network has different names (ie. it's not the same name with different country level extensions).

Many in the SEO community are saying that PBNs are bad, that Google will penalize you for using a PBN (even if you have a purely private PBN that you use yourself and nobody else can use). But as you can see in the Matt Cutts video from before, Google appears to allow 3 to 5 of your "partner" websites to crosslink to each other.

So is the SEO community just wrong on their thinking that PBNs are really that dangerous if you have a low number of sites in your PBN (ie. only 3 to 5 websites in your PBN)? Because from my viewpoint, a PBN is just a partner website network with poor footprints and as per the videos above, Google seems to accept a partner website network with 3 to 5 sites in the network.

> Note: I own and run multiple websites, and I used to have hundreds years ago that self-sustained through advertising. The crosslinks were always relevant but sometimes Google still didn't like it. They couldn't always tell a PBN from a partner site.

Yup, thanks for sharing this information. This is what I was getting at. I don't think Google can distinguish between a PBN and a partner website network. My theory is that Google treats both PBNs and partner website networks the same. If you have too many sites in your network, be it a PBN or a partner website network, and you crosslink too many of them, then Google will penalize you. I'm guessing that the more websites you have in your network, the more certain that Google is able to determine it's part of the same network. This would explain why Matt Cutts says 3 to 5 website in your partner website network is okay but he says if you have 30 websites in your network and you crosslink them, then you may get penalized.

[aristotle]

They might look similar superficially, but a PBN is usually created for SEO purposes, as an attempt to game the system to boost the rankings of one main site. This isn't the same as a group of stand-alone independent sites whose only connection is common ownership.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "private PBN".

[battlestar123]

> They might look similar superficially, but a PBN is usually created for SEO purposes, as an attempt to game the system to boost the rankings of one main site. This isn't the same as a group of stand-alone independent sites whose only connection is common ownership.

Actually, I think a partner website network, because it has common ownership, will just show more obvious footprints to Google. In a partner website network, the owner probably uses the same registar, same registration information, same IP, maybe even the same CMS, etc.

I think some partner website networks may also be created to boost the sites in the network, including the main site. My guess is, the Google algorithm may not be able to distinguish what is a PBN or a partner website so easily in some cases (because some sites in PBNs are done very well). I am guessing sometimes, a manual review may only be able to distinguish a partner website from a PBN.

> Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "private PBN".

I mean, a PBN where you don't allow others to use the network. So you are the only one using it. There are a lot of PBNs out there but many of them are really for public use. So the owner may be selling links on a "public" blog network for others to use, which makes it easier to discover this network. From my understanding, Google would pay to get a link on some of public" PBNs. Once Google got a link on a public PBN, they were able to infiltrate the network and then from there, they can take down all the other sites in the public PBN.

What I am referring to is a purely "private" PBN where you don't allow others to use it so you are the only one using it. The actual "private" PBNs are harder for Google to catch because they can't buy themselves into the network to discover the sites in the network.

[aristotle]

Well it looks like you may want to use your "partner network" in the same way, and for the same purpose, as PBNs are typically used, although perhaps on a smaller scale. That could explain why you're wondering how much inter-linking you can get away with.

[battlestar123]

> Well it looks like you may want to use your "partner network" in the same way, and for the same purpose, as PBNs are typically used, although perhaps on a smaller scale. That could explain why you're wondering how much inter-linking you can get away with.

Thanks. I'm mostly interested in figuring out how the Google algorithm works, so that's why I brought this topic up for discussion, since their algorithm is black box to all of us and we can only look on from the outside. I was hoping other people could share their insights and experience. That's the best way that we can all understand Google's algorithm better. Thank you for your sharing your insights and experience in this thread!

[sunjun]

if the pbn and partner network backlink similar，similar constructure，similar html even the class name，G will check and make action carefully.

[tangor]

Half the time it is appearance. The other half is collusion. The other half is intent. And the half beyond that is ducks and quackss. (I know that is too many halfs, and SO DOES THE AVERAGE SEARCH ENGINE).

Just keep that in mind.

[n0tSEO]

Sadly I don't know of a part of the algo that recognizes PBNs specifically (if there's one, I hope to find out) but if you have more websites and it makes sense to interlink, really don't refrain from doing that out of fear of repercussions from Google. Your freedom as a webmaster should remain intact for your corner of Web to make sense.

If Google makes a mistake (e.g. some of their staff applies a manual action for link schemes) you can still submit a reconsideration request and explain the situation.

(I didn't do it at the time because I didn't care, since my websites used to have a reader base that didn't come from search engine, but from community building. It was something that made me laugh, though!)

[battlestar123]

> Sadly I don't know of a part of the algo that recognizes PBNs specifically

I think they do have a part of the algorithm that recognizes PBNs (this is just an educated guess by me, nobody really knows for sure). But most likely, the algorithm probably just flags the PBN network and then the PBN network goes through a manual review.

Now there may also be a part of the algorithm that detects the most obvious PBNs with the most sloppy footprints, and if it detects over an X number of sites in this PBN that shares the same sloppy footprints, then Google may just penalize this PBN network without a manual review. I mean, some PBNs that are done poorly enough and may have extremely obvious footprints and if Google detects a large number of sites in this network, it may just penalize it without a manual review because the sample size for this PBN network is so large that Google is confident it is a PBN. Even a legitimate partner network may get caught in a penalty if there are too many cross links and sites in the partner network (that's why Matt Cutts advised to people to limit the cross links between sites in a partner network). Again, this is my educated guess.

[edited by: battlestar123 at 6:50 am (utc) on Dec 8, 2019]

[battlestar123]

> if the pbn and partner network backlink similar，similar constructure，similar html even the class name，G will check and make action carefully.

Yes, I think so.