Google Updates and SERP Changes - November 2019

[engine]

---

System: The following 8 messages were cut out of thread at: https://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4966830.htm [webmasterworld.com] by robert_charlton - 4:01 pm on Nov 1, 2019 (PDT -8)

---

Not what i'd seen, it wasn't even that.
I'd class myself as an experienced searcher, and, sometimes, when I look at Google's serps it's trying to pre-empt my intent. More often than not, it's presenting either highly-optimised sites, or, in this case, it was all wrong. Something's broke.

It works that way these days.

I don't ever use "best" as that is spammed out.

[NickMNS]

It is not "illegal", Google is not the law.

Nobody was suggesting that Google was the law. Paid links are essentially advertisements, and thus must be disclosed at least in the US as well as many if not all western countries. See the link to FTC website:
[ftc.gov...]

Clearly paid links are not as cut and dry as the examples in the linked article, and as I mentioned in my previous post it is rather unlikely that anyone would go after you for selling a few links. The fact remains that it is "illegal" and there is a risk of getting caught. Now it is up to each webmaster to weigh risk vs the return.

Note that you could easily disclose that the links are paid and thus avoiding any legal issues while not no-following the links. But then Google would be well within its rights to penalize you or simply ignore the links.

[seomotionz]

Google is most certainly not the law. And neither they want to impose anything on people. Its just too big. And you cannot be good to certain amount of people without making another amount of people feel bad, when specially money is involved.

[MayankParmar]

Discover/News traffic is back today. All is good now, phew.. :)

[seomotionz]

@MayankParmar Congrats man! Your prayers have been answered. Although I haven't heard from anybody else.

[samwest]

Ok, back to the #1 position, but every time this happens, traffic turns off completely. Morning started out OK, but now over an hour without a soul. As the SERPs churn, traffic stops on each change...starts back up until the next change a few hours later. Stop messing with the remote!

[al1st]

I've taken on a project with a site in a very competitive space and I may have picked a bad time with all this google drama going on! It's hard to find a baseline to measure from.

[cheegum]

There is no sign of this update stopping. Can anyone who gained with this update shed a light on what they focused on?

[hopepro]

It seems to be shuffling again today. The previous contents published before 7th were down to hell after the update started. Now, they started to gain ranking. But for new contents publish during the algo update, they start to jump up and down.

[samwest]

Incredible how current traffic is tracking the previous period exactly. Seems impossible in what you would think is a rather chaotic system of millions of users...especially when compared to patterns from years ago. It's as if standard deviation and variance no longer exist in the SERPs world...even as results and user behavior appear to be bouncing daily...even hourly. Perhaps that apparent delta is the control mechanism itself.

[mosxu]

@samwest

Somehow the machine remembers the behaviour of your users from long time ago.

It makes me wonder why would the machine store it in the first place?

[mbassos]

Has anyone ever had pages completely removed from the index (despite being fine with the inspection tool), yet have zero manual penalty notifications?

[browndog]

Ok, back to the #1 position, but every time this happens, traffic turns off completely.

I am often wary to click on the first link because it's usually an ad. Especially so if I'm searching for something commercial in nature 'best product for wigititis'...I might just be looking for information, but am aware that the first 1-3 results are often an ad (I refuse to click on ads on the G homepage).

[StupidIntelligent]

Quiet before a storm. Expecting a huge update...

[samwest]

Has anyone ever had pages completely removed from the index (despite being fine with the inspection tool), yet have zero manual penalty notifications?

Yes, regularly...and usually usurped by thin, click bait, ad filled content farm trash. The in and out seems to be a control mechanism because my traffic data is tracking previous periods exactly and the IN / OUT & OFF / ON traffic patterns are acting like a PID controller. My GA is clearly the error signal in the feedback loop, but as each click is tagged with a google cookie, it's redundant, so removing GA would not remove the feedback. This has to be the way "throttling" is achieved.

[dethfire]

Really need a rollback. The Nov 8-10th update just devastated me.

[samwest]

It's on fire this morning, you'd think it was a rollback to 2005. See, I don't always report when it's off...although, it's usually off. You can really tell good quality traffic as users hit new pages every few seconds. It's a day & night pattern difference. I have been working it hard the past week, so perhaps this is the harvest of those efforts. Seems the algo knows when you work it. This is the Google I could learn to love again.

[StupidIntelligent]

@samwest - good to see samwest happy for a change.

[Solipsism]

"This is the Google I could learn to love again."

I think we are quite bipolar in SEO industry. When our trafic drops we say Google has changed and it is evil. But when we see an improvement our a growth on our traffic, this is a fantastic world and a fantastic job. It is not a criticism, it's just a finding and i'm the first to be like that.
Sometimes i'm feeling that we are just useless and we should let Google do what he want on our website.

[RareBit]

@Samwest - Do you sell Christmas widgets:)

[seomotionz]

It's on fire this morning, you'd think it was a rollback to 2005. See, I don't always report when it's off...although, it's usually off. You can really tell good quality traffic as users hit new pages every few seconds. It's a day & night pattern difference. I have been working it hard the past week, so perhaps this is the harvest of those efforts. Seems the algo knows when you work it. This is the Google I could learn to love again.

@samwest Sell whatever you sell when its up. Soon you will be hating Google again. (I don't wish and/or want your rankings to fall)

[JorgeV]

Hello-

This is the Google I could learn to love again.

And what about the thousands of web publishers that you are now outranking, and who are seeing the business collapse now? (joking, even if...)

[samwest]

....LOL if you know me you know this was all pretty much tongue in cheek, because as I always say: "enjoy it while it lasts, because it never lasts"...and it didn't. Back to OFF again...but a perfect example of the ON/OFF traffic we all seem to experience these days. The also just loves toying with us.

[Athedian]

Traffic and ranking continue to drop today and has been dropping ever so slowly each day. It spiked for me back in 11/8, then died off starting 11/20. In the academic industry.

[seomotionz]

....LOL if you know me you know this was all pretty much tongue in cheek, because as I always say: "enjoy it while it lasts, because it never lasts"...and it didn't. Back to OFF again...but a perfect example of the ON/OFF traffic we all seem to experience these days. The also just loves toying with us.

@samwest Well I noticed the on and off today too. Not surprised at all. And once again the SERP's are flooded with ads. Worthless pages are ranking high.

"This is the Google I could learn to love again."

I think we are quite bipolar in SEO industry. When our trafic drops we say Google has changed and it is evil. But when we see an improvement our a growth on our traffic, this is a fantastic world and a fantastic job. It is not a criticism, it's just a finding and i'm the first to be like that.
Sometimes i'm feeling that we are just useless and we should let Google do what he want on our website.

@Solipsism Maybe we are bipolar and only think of ourselves. But did you have seen the SERP's lately? Just make any normal search on any topic that comes to your mind. The first you will notice is ads and the second thing you will probably see that sites which have exact domain name as your search query or the most biggest site (of that niche) in your screen, despite what you search and how you search. Google will keep showing you the same results over and over.

[riccarbi]

@Solipsism Maybe we are bipolar and only think of ourselves. But did you have seen the SERP's lately? Just make any normal search on any topic that comes to your mind. The first you will notice is ads and the second thing you will probably see that sites which have exact domain name as your search query or the most biggest site (of that niche) in your screen, despite what you search and how you search. Google will keep showing you the same results over and over.

Google is no longer interested in the quality of its SERP; on the contrary, letting the best pages to get the top the SERP would be detrimental for them.
If you create a good website and this rank in the first place of the SERP because of its quality, what's the point of paying Google for that spot?
It's much better to put the worst content farms and scraper sites in those spots so that you'll ask yourself:
"I have a very good website plenty of high-quality original content, surely much better than those crappy ones that are listed above me, why I am not ranking better?" Am I doing something Google doesn't like or understand? What if I give them some money and pay for a few paid listings?

That's why to own at the same time the most important (by far) search engine and the most important web advertising company (and make them collaborate with one another) should be forbidden by antitrust law.

[goodroi]

Mods Note Please be careful to stay on topic. If you want to talk about Google business practices please post in the Google business section.

[Marty Rogers]

Not noticed much on this side, just the usual fluctuations we expect on a daily / weekly basis.

[samwest]

And yet another total SERP shakeup in my vertical. Its changing every two to three days. Algo appears to be testing the best monetization arrangement' probably based on some sophisticated behavioral forecasting algorithym. They must be setting it up before it happens...or dynamically on the fly.
As some of us experienced yesterday, the throttle is very apparent. It's like the little dutch boy taking a rest, removing his finger from the dike for a short period of time allowing good traffic to leak out and convert, once the finger is back in the dike, it's totally off again. Three conversions within an hour followed by nothing else for 24 hours is NOT natural.

[southernguy]

@samwest I had one of the best converting mornings yesterday I have seen since over a year ago, it lasted for about 4 hours and then just died, now down to zombies and from countries like Germany, China, and Russia, go figure sigh....

[edited by: southernguy at 1:58 pm (utc) on Nov 26, 2019]

[seomotionz]

@samwest One of our site gets subscriptions. It got 12 subscribers out of 112 visitors, this is between hours 8 and 10 a.m which is not odd but a little off time. But when it is supposed to get visits & subscribers which is from 11 to 4 or 5, it only got 3 subscribers which are basically from referral traffic. And this is today not yesterday. I am wondering is Google testing a new algorithm or testing the patience of the webmasters (for us to give up and invest more in ads) ?!

@southernguy Sounds like my experience as I stated above.

[cheegum]

CognitiveSEO is reporting volatility of 75

[samwest]

@ southern and seom... exactly the same time I had the rush of great traffic and conversions...now somebody explain how totally different sites get the same experience in the same time frame. Again, this is pretty sure fire evidence that the SERP traffic is HIGHLY manipulated (oh, what a surprise!). I welcome any plausible explanations. This morning it's back to drip traffic and zombie visits. I used to be able to set my watch by conversions alone.

[MarvinG]

Saw an increase of traffic yesterday. Hope this will continue the rest of the week.

[mosxu]

I don’t think human traffic is open for competition. If AI can see that there is no money in our bank account why would they waste processing power.

[seomotionz]

@samwest I am telling myself now that for two hours everyday everything is going to be normal. Although I know its false optimism. Tomorrow may even could get worse.

[samwest]

And now, middle of the day, top 2 organic positions across a wide range of related searches and yet not a single human visitor is making it through the Gorg wall.

[Mozzim]

I was skeptical, but I literally saw one of the best conversion days ever yesterday, and today it's the complete opposite. My positions actually went up from yesterday but traffic is down over 70 percent. Something might be going on, that's just too much of a coincidence.

[glakes]

I was skeptical, but I literally saw one of the best conversion days ever yesterday, and today it's the complete opposite.

My observations are similar. The 24th saw a .31% conversion rate from Google to a "normal" 2.32% conversion rate yesterday (25th) to a .53% conversion rate today. It's all over the map....

[samwest]

It's all over the map....

The question remains...why?
Yes, it's all over the map, but for everyone simultaneously (who is actually taking the time to observe and notice)?
These type of events really throw the spotlight on the manipulation. While it does not prove it conclusively, I think it's very evident. I'm sure it bums everyone out to think how much that virtual hand in your pocket is really taking every day.

[EditorialGuy]

These type of events really throw the spotlight on the manipulation.

On the other hand, when a site owner's Google rankings and traffic are stable, we also hear complaints about manipulation ("throttling," for example).

[jmorgan]

Traffic starting to drop significantly, most likely due to Thanksgiving.

[samwest]

@EG - you are missing the relevance of this simultaneous group observed event. This simply clarifies the theory that throttling is INDEED happening all the time....except for these short events or bumps that reveal natural unfettered converting traffic...of course YMMV. lol

@jmorgan...

Traffic starting to drop significantly, most likely due to Thanksgiving.

For my niche that has historically been a RISE in traffic on Thanksgiving...but not seeing that as of yet...

[jmorgan]

@samwest I guess if you're in the retail sector (which I'm not), you might have to wait till it gets closer to Black Friday.

[aristotle]

Traffic starting to drop significantly, most likely due to Thanksgiving.

In addition to the usual effects of Thanksgiving, news sites are reporting that a ferocious 'bomb cyclone' is taking aim at huge portion of the western US. It could produce hurricane force winds, extensive flooding, widespread power outages, etc.

[glakes]

The question remains...why?

With the holidays here, my guess is Google is leveraging chaos in organics to boost Adwords spending. Businesses have built up a lot of inventory to meet the holiday demand, and with organics pulled out from underneath them many will be compelled to spend big on ads just to prop up sales/ move inventory. The items I sell are mostly industrial and not stocking stuffers, so the chaos has a reverse effect on us. We reduced Adwords spending by about 40%.

I see the chaos in organics as Google attempting their last hurrah for holiday shopping. Shoppers have largely abandoned Google, and I think 2020 will be the year it becomes more widely known just how poor Google is at sending shoppers to websites. Especially if the chaos in organics continues, imagine how ugly the holiday season sales numbers will look for those small businesses that invested heavily in Google - whether it be SEO or paid ads. Neither are delivering. The winners this holiday season will likely be the same as they were in the past - Amazon, WalMart, etc. which are all eroding Google's relevance in commerce.

Most of us have seen the venture capitalist Chamath Palihapitiya's comments in the story at [cnbc.com...] and I think he sums it up pretty well. Just like Google is attempting to devour the profits in the travel industry, their efforts will continue expanding into other industries by leveraging their search product.

“The longer it takes for Google to find a second act, the more you’re f----d,” he said about those companies, adding that investor patience will wane. “If you are in the business of being a parasite on top of Google, your medium-term and long-term prospects are terrible; you’re an impaired company, you don’t know it,” he added. The only way to win, he argued, is to offer unique value; many companies have done the opposite, becoming more like their competitors and relying on Google to drive volume. That’s a recipe for disaster.

[seomotionz]

Something is terribly wrong today. Today we didn't get the happy two hour traffic. Although it was more or less obvious.

But still no zombies or bots or nothing. Its an absolute silence.

[hopepro]

From my side, I can see different search results with multiple searches on the same keywords within seconds. It swings up and down like crazy

[mosxu]

In my industry when a certain enhanced advertiser is on I can see where all buyers go to and the rest of us get dumped or not showing at all.

Nothing special about the site or advertiser prices but if no other competitors with high conversion rates show than that advertiser will pay the highest bid and get the conversion too.

At the moment when I search for a product I only find what I am looking for on max 1-2 websites although there are probably at least 10 websites offering that product.

This practice is harming the consumer for sure.

[rustybrick]

Reminder, Thanksgiving pretty much starts today. People in the US start to take off Wednesday through the weekend.

[seomotionz]

@rustybrick Anything else that we should be aware of? Because what it looks like a whole lot more is going on today.