Ranking issues with site

[lcfc80]

Hi, not sure if i'm allowed to say the site so I'm not going to but got a site showing very strange results. It's at least 8 months old, got some decent links but nothing to keyword heavy and the content, I think, is good. Over 150 pages of quality reviewsat least 800 words each.
Anyway, as you would expect it was a slow start but over the months things improved as I would expect and started closing in on page 1 for a few terms and a few bonus terms also. Then about 3-4 weeks ago I started seeing strange things. Some SERPS completely vanish then return but some bomb down. For example, one phrase, say 'red widgets uk' moved up to page 3 and offered something to build on, same for 'uk red widgets'. one phrase would then bomb down to page 8, 1 would stay where it was and strangely 'red widgets' would sit around page 6 motionless. Now, if i ask google to crawl the homepage and resubmit it it will usually vanish for almost everything for a good few hours then the next day the original rankings to return, then for the whole thing to start all over again. It's almost like a filter kicks in then lets go?
When I check SERPS I make sure there is no history or cookies, I use a completely different browser to what I use for anything else and in incognito/private mode. also i use a UK VPN and check with it off and then on (I never click on anything in these searches) so the serps should be clean? Obviously it is hard for anyone to say without knowing the site but has anyone seen this before? One of the reasons this has confused me so much is that I have other sites ranking fairly steady with the odd bounce when there has been a google update but nothing like this. Hope this thread is ok and am allowed to ask

thanks

[not2easy]

Now, if i ask google to crawl the homepage and resubmit it it will usually vanish for almost everything for a good few hours then the next day the original rankings to return, then for the whole thing to start all over again. It's almost like a filter kicks in then lets go?

If you are using the "Fetch as Google" tool to resubmit pages, they do not appreciate that. It is not going to help. If you add new content, submit a new sitemap.

Another issue could be that just like every other site out there, the data loss problem did not give you accurate data to observe: [webmasterworld.com...]

[lcfc80]

Hi, thanks for the reply, regards to the url inspection tool, the first time I used it was because some SERPS went AWOL so recrawled and the results were as above, only did it again when some serps went strane so wanted to see if the same thing would happen, and it did.
with regards the data, I dont really follow WMT data so not even seen any loses (I know about them though) as I like to follow the SERPS themselves to see what is going on
has me baffled so far

[lcfc80]

< moved from another location >

I woke up this morning (UK) to see one site affected exactly the same as when the last core update first rolled out, and it's affected me sitewide, some longtail keywords have been punished terribly with some losing 7 to 8 pages. I try and not moan about these things and just crack on but when google says produce good content it's incredibly frustrating to do just that and seemingly be punished for it and here's a great example of why I feel like completely giving up after working so hard

<I see this morning that a page of mine> has been pushed down to page 4, normally wouldn't mind and think others are probably producing just as good content, then I see an absolute pile of crap ranking <snip> and realised it's been consistently ranking on page 2 for ages. Can only hope whatever started pushing everything back up as the update rolled out does the same again

[Mod's note: Edited to remove specifics, and to connect various related posts together into one thread.

Mine is quality content that is well researched etc, the other example is spun content which to me looks like it was injected onto a hacked website as it's a Polish engineering website with absolutely no connection to <my niche, 'red widgets uk'>, and that's before reading it and realising it makes no sense whatsoever


[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 10:25 am (utc) on Jul 2, 2022]

[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 1:25 pm (utc) on Jul 4, 2022]
[edit reason] Removed specifics and cross-posting with poster. [/edit]

[Robert Charlton]

lcfc80, I'm revisiting the topic of your thread because, in the course of dealing with the specifics in your post, I saw that in your first post in this thread you had described the procedures that might be causing your periodic drops, so I'm reopening this discussion.

Just to give you a partial answer on your original question for now, you describe erratic movements on your site as you gradually try to get it to move up in the rankings. I think your description might be pretty close to right on...

It's almost like a filter kicks in then lets go?

While Google likes changes that improve sites for users, it doesn't like certain kinds of frequent changes that might be trying to reverse-engineer its algorithm. When it feels that changes are being made for the sake of rankings, Google may "change rankings in unexpected, counter-intuitive ways", trying to assess the behavior it's observing. There's a patent on this, one that I'm virtually certain Google uses frequently and in various circumstances. Here's a long and not always simple discussion on the patent...

Google's Rank Modifying Patent for Spam Detection
https://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4486158.htm [webmasterworld.com]

Additionally, and related I feel to the core principles behind this patent, Google has instituted some fairly complex algorithms related to the use of its submission tools... also for the purpose of preventing manipulation. Regarding submission... not2easy was right on in her comment to you above. Frequent use of the Fetch tool may well get you in trouble...

If you are using the "Fetch as Google" tool to resubmit pages, they do not appreciate that. It is not going to help. If you add new content, submit a new sitemap.

Perhaps, I'm thinking, Google is applying special scrutiny to sites and submitters who've made frequent use of the tool, and identified networks they might belong to.
---

Regarding your apparently simultaneous drop in rankings, I can't comment whether it was the only reason you dropped, but I was going to suggest that the sudden ranking of another site did sound like it might have been a hacked site. Since it appears that you're aware enough of that general mechanism to have guessed it yourself, you shouldn't be surprised that such a site popped up. The place to report that is Google, not here. I would also pay attention to how long the hacked and injected page stays in the position it's in.

It's hard for me to say, though, because of other issues involved with your site, precisely what might be causing the drop in your rankings, and whether the hack may be purposely targeting your search terms.

Note that Google's time to rank new content could easily be 6-9 months, but that apparently can be circumvented by churn and burn techniques. Perhaps the hackers were aware of this, and that's why the page was hanging around for a while before the page made this leap up. In any event, it sounds like your 'red widgets uk' niche is very competitive.

[lcfc80]

these are 2 different sites