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Google Florida Update 2 March 12, 2019

         

BushyTop

10:52 am on Mar 12, 2019 (gmt 0)

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System: The following 23 messages were cut out of thread at: https://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4937425.htm [webmasterworld.com] by brett_tabke - 8:43 am on Mar 13, 2019 (cst -6)


Seeing some changes this morning. Anyone else. UK.

Fatlossplanner

11:43 am on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@seo2019 my site too got hit.. And I can less thin content sites out ranking me.. Not sure what's wrong with Google... For some of my high traffic keywords I can even see pinterest pins ranking where there is nothing but images... Google is slowly losing its reliability.. It's best to plan for worse and diversify the traffic source..

Fatlossplanner

12:49 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Looks like large websites are ranking... DRAXE.Com has managed to restore rankings to its non performing old posts... Interesting to see how it plays out in next few days..

EditorialGuy

2:12 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Google has officially announced webmasters can't do anything to fix this #*$!

Stands to reason. I can think of many highly-specific queries where any number of results would be just fine. Joe Bob might prefer result A to result B, and Jimbo might prefer result B to result C, but who can say with objective certainty which of the three results should be served up first? Or what, if anything, needs to be "fixed"?

broccoli

2:29 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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When thin content sites rank well after an update it’s usually due to keywords and/or backlink authority or other technical factors. They tend to drop again over time due to the quality/user experience algorithms.

Milchan

3:54 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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what I find strange about this update is that my traffic has fallen a bit , but probably just 10 to 15% , but dont see differences in the SERPs (other than now being number for a very competive terms when I was 2 or 3 before) but my sales have simply all but disappeared. Lost about 80 to 90% and even after 4 days now no signs of recovery. I will hold off on panicking for now as the updates do take time to settle but if things dont look up at all ill be out of business by end of the month. I had already decided to get out of business by the end of this year anyway but want to make a more gradual and smooth transition than being pushed of a cliff like this.

Cyril TechWebsites

6:16 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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It’s a weekend and i am still cautious to call it a rollback , but theres a slight uptick from yesterday and continuing , we were hit hard on march 13th , march 14th being the worst trend , however 15th and today brings a little hope .


I'm really happy with that and wish you a good luck with your website. Because my "recovery" was just my illusions. I have strong -20% and I'm still hope for some changes (they are usually happening after week or two, I mean tweaks). Because right now SERP is looking like a pregnant cow.

Halaspike

7:34 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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My website was hit so hard, I'm now seeing 0 active users on google analytics. 80% of my organic traffic gone.

tangor

8:19 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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if things dont look up at all ill be out of business by end of the month


Could this be the secret of the update? Drive out all the small biz in favor of those who can --- and will --- play at a higher level by PAYING IN to play?

It is already obvious that g is seeking the big fish ... and that means the little fish get eaten. :)

The landscape of the advertising as income side of the web has changed radically over the last four years. I would not be surprised if g is seeking to max profits by getting rid of the "chaff"...

Then again, we don't know what the black box actually does.

Fatlossplanner

8:53 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@Halaspike same here... My traffic dropped 80% that's insane... If this continues we will be out of the market... And i don't see any signs of improvement... I guess quality content is suffering now...

HereWeGo123

8:57 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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After several days of analysis of what happened (most specifically with our site), here are some of the patterns I've been noticing thus far, but all that can change in coming days or weeks.

But here's quick back story first – We have been on a steady upward trajectory and almost always benefitted from all the minor and major quality updates. At the very least, we never got hit and just sustained our rankings and traffic for the last few years. We did get hit a bit in May 2014 with Panda and then saw a 100% recovery that following September 2014, although we made little to no changes, and have been good ever since while adding content and organically growing traffic (FYI: we're a U.S. consumer review website + editorial content reviews on products and brands of various niches).

This last Florida 2 update was when we felt we got hit for the first time since May 2014. At first I noticed that some KWs dropped 1-3 slots down on average. I thought to myself, “No big deal”, although on the morning of March 13, real time stats were lower than I would've liked to see for that time of the day/week. All that followed by Google confirming that there was a core update began to spark some confusion and possibly minor panic.

Throughout that whole day as well as the next, as I'm manually checking SERPs for dozens upon dozens of KWs that I was personally attached to monitoring for years, I began noticing that we would slip a slot here and there for many of them, while still staying strong of other KW terms.

Factoring that in with lower real time traffic and Google update discussions, I then thought to myself, “Did we actually get hit?’ It felt surreal, but I had to keep my head up not to allow myself to go down a rabbit hole of worst case scenarios. As humans, it's so easy to allow our minds to go down insanely dangerous avenues of assumptions (especially at night when we can't sleep for whatever reason, unless I'm just speaking for myself here).

So to get more specific, here is where it gets interesting, and quite frankly, inspiring, at least for us. And anyone here can disagree with what I'm about to say if they'd like.

As a review and editorial content site, we have neglected to make systematic and persistent efforts to keep our editorial content up to date. We all already know that a lot of types of content naturally gets outdated and becomes obsolete for Google and users. Over the years, in my opinion, we have always strived to refine our editorial and investigative approach when it comes to writing the content, but that was mostly just applied to brand new written content moving forward and not so much going back to rewrite/update our old content. What seemed of high-quality to us 2-3 years ago, today will seem like a joke, and we ask ourselves, “How the heck did we ever allow this piece to get published?”.

Before, we included no authorship, no dates, and let the content that once performed really nicely just stay in that state for years, assuming we'll rank there forever. Yes, we were in the comfort zone without any sense of urgency.

Meanwhile, as we are hiring better talent, refining our editorial policies and standards, sure, naturally we're producing better content (at least in my eyes, and anyone can beg to differ, of course). Instead of content that sounds like it was written by a bad-grade junior high-school student, we now are writing content at an advanced high school student level, or even college (depending on subject matter of course, and no one wants to read academic literature type of content, unless you're publishing some governmental clinical studies or articulating case law for attorneys). Naturally, we feel that our content over the years has improved tremendously compared to what it was in prior years. (No I'm not here to throw a pity party for myself, I'll explain why in a moment).

So with all that said, back to the March 13 update, when it comes to our rankings, we remained strong or even grew in content that was published more recently (in line with our new standards) and/or written by better and more talented authors (no I'm not referring to only E-A-T, just craft and investigative approach skills of writers).

When in comes to older, thin, weak content that was ranking atop, that is where I noticed the biggest loss in rankings after this update (not too catastrophic, but as mentioned, on average 1-3 slots down).

The problem in our case is the fact that a good chunk (if not the majority) of our content was published a while ago, has not been updated and some of it is weak. And maybe, finally, Google realized that with respect to our site. Because again, what we think is our good, and more recent content actually still ranks prominently after this update.

But because we were relying on so many other KWs of older and weaker pieces in addition, we felt the effect of this update. Additionally, for KWs of older and outdated content that we remained rooted in for strong positions after this update, after re-reading it, it does appear to be on the stronger side with 50/50 argumentative points and clear-cut takeaways for the targeted readers, rather than just regurgitation of the info that’s already on there for the targeted subject matter/KW.

With respect to our site, I personally don't feel that this is a penalty of some kind, but definitely a “course-correction” and a wake-up call. We’ve always understood and appreciated the importance of having high quality and updated content, but just always deferred to actually doing it “some other time”. Perhaps, this is a wake up call…? This is unpleasant, but it’s no surprise. We were riding the wave up until this point.

And of course, amongst this whole content quality issue observation on our part, there are other onsite technical and infrastructural things that need major improvement and refinement. It’s been on our books for quite some time, which also, was neglected on our part.

We have our takeaways and believe we know what needs to be done. I don’t expect everyone to agree with this observation, of course. Excited to hear everyone else’s thoughts.

EDIT: I forgot to include the fact that we also just have a ton of old, thin and dead weight content that you can't even rewrite because they're for old products and brands that no longer exist. We need to prune our content. There's a substantial amount too, which can, among many other things, contribute to the negative effect of this update. Also, for the KWs, that we did lose positions for, we are getting outranked by sites that I would call more established and reputable, most of which, according to SEMrush experienced a very nice and noticeable boost beginning March 13.

All this analysis of our KW positions for various subject matters, to me, implies that we aren't necessarily suppressed or algorithmically penalized but were rather put on Google's course correction. I believe if we do nothing about this, at the very least, will just remain where we are now and not recover OR even continue to plummet, at which point, I cannot guarantee that I'll have as much energy or optimism as I do now. So it's best to act now!

[edited by: HereWeGo123 at 9:30 pm (utc) on Mar 16, 2019]

sk7411

9:30 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@HereWeGo123 , I kind of relate with everything that you have mentioned but all these might change after 1-2 months with another Official Core Quality Reversal of Reversal's Core Quality Update 2019 as they wish to call it and we might not even be able to do a thing about it. What irks us is that fellas who lost traffic on earlier updates make a come back again without doing anything about it.

The reality is Google wants to keep their index fresh throughout the year rather than making it stale, the big fish survives for strong BL profile while the small ones keep shuffling now and then.

The takeaway of this update was.


Those who Saw a decline in last years March update 2018, saw some improvements in Aug 2018 and Vice Versa.
And those who Surged in Aug 2018 saw a decline in this one and vice versa.

A beautiful explanation that "Nothing" can be created by doing something in the codes :)) ,

Anyways mate, some jokes apart to lighten up everyone's mood, hope you and all had a great Weekend!

[edited by: sk7411 at 9:55 pm (utc) on Mar 16, 2019]

broccoli

9:39 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@HereWeGo123 Do the older articles you mention that have dropped in ranking have more backlinks than your newer articles?

My older, well established pages have been hit hard, but the content is not old, it has been updated and optimised in the last few months, and has dates and authorship, and the user signals to those pages are good.

HereWeGo123

10:00 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@sk7411 – Thanks for that, mate. Have you personally experienced a hit after a major quality update, did nothing and saw reversal after some other quality updates afterwards?

Do the older articles you mention that have dropped in ranking have more backlinks than your newer articles?


@brocoli – I can't find a concrete pattern in that. I know we acquire good natural backlinks from high domain authority domains sometimes. I haven't done enough analysis pertaining to backlinks just yet. But, preliminary analysis shows that there is no distinct pattern in one scenario or the other. For KWs of both older or newer content where we remained strong, some URLs have decent DoFollow links while others don't. Have you noticed that the content you dropped for have too many links and/or spam/nSEO links? We are constant victims of nSEO.

sk7411

10:19 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@sk7411 – Thanks for that, mate. Have you personally experienced a hit after a major quality update, did nothing and saw reversal after some other quality updates afterwards?


@HereWeGo123 That did happen, was hit by march update, managed to recover it by Aug 2018 without doing a thing but of course, continue posting contents, I was steady and ok, but this update did shake us up. Not like march but still, 2-3 spots down as you are noticing. Someone quoted in this thread that while the algo is rolling out we do get to see some sites that outrank us for some time but eventually the other factor kicks in which normalizes the results based on user experience and stuff. This is what is the trend so far during all these updates while I cannot be 100% sure. I personally would not rely on reversals or sit back and hope the devs to tweak them but it's always better to give it a week or two to see where we stand and then continue to improve anything that can really be improved.


I just hope everyone deserving including you make the way out of it and rises again.

HereWeGo123

10:45 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@sk7411 – Thanks, I really appreciate your energy and optimism. It's definitely the right attitude for everyone! I think if we independently and organically arrive at certain conclusions as to what needs to be done to improve our sites, even before an update rolls out, it should be done. After feeling the effect of this update, the things we need to do to improve didn't come to us overnight but they were just reaffirmed based on what we were supposed to do a while ago.

@brocoli – Regarding links again, your message forced me to check into even more examples. I am noticing us ranking nicely for very general and mildly competitive KW terms that have no links at all, according to ahrefs, at least. But again, this pattern isn't across the board because I see other KWs that we rank nicely for that do have some natural good backlinks.

One thing I know I can hone in one thus far in terms of a more or less consistent pattern I'm seeing is the content quality, in my opinion (with or without links).

broccoli

11:23 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@HereWeGo123 I think someone tried to negative SEO me in about 2014, but the vast majority of my links are real. I have a lot of backlinks, many pages have 1000s because I have an entertainment/viral site, most of the links are from people's personal blogs, but a few are from press. A lot of them are exact match anchor text. Google is hardly acknowledging any of my links and removed about 20,000 of them from GSC a couple of weeks ago.

Nichita

11:37 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Hello guys,

Three of my sites was hit, all of them on "evergreen" niches (medicine / facts / gadgets-software). I made a short research on the market (competitors etc.) and so far I've found three apparently patterns on the affected sites:

1. All of them have indexed "tags";
2. The "author" pages are blocked with robots.txt or are completely missing / display very limited info about the authors (this update could target the trust of the site);
3. Some of sites have multiple articles on the same subjects (cannibalization);

In my case I saw the best articles replaced with "alternate" ones from the site, but with a "lower quality". For example, an article with 3000 words on topic was replaced in SERP with a short video interview + some text. The position of the alternate articles is almost all the time lower than the "original" (better researched / in-depth) post.

[edited by: phranque at 8:48 pm (utc) on Mar 17, 2019]
[edit reason] #5: [webmasterworld.com...] [/edit]

HereWeGo123

11:54 pm on Mar 16, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@brocoli – Yeah, makes sense. We used to regularly disavow since there were always spammy links coming in. After the most recent and allegedly “final” stand-alone penguin update in September 2016, we haven't disavowed much since Google said that there's no need unless you get a manual action and/or have self-made SEO links. But in recent months, we've recently begun being on the fence about it, and according to certain sources, some Googlers even said that there are algorithmic link penalties that exist now without even a manual action. And, even if there's no “direct” algorithmic link penalty, the excessive nSEO and bad links could undermine the potential of the actual good links you've acquired. I wonder if anyone here recommends disavowing.

seo2019

6:57 am on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Ok so my website was set up 2 years ago. The site has 20 pages, the pages with the most content and links are losing rankings where as the pages with little to no content with a hand full of links are all up nearly 100% in visitor numbers.

This is so bizarre 🤔

browndog

7:38 am on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Twice today I've searched for something about 'unicorns' and the number one result is about people (both times a government website).

I just now searched for something and the number one result produced a 404.

Not great.

My site is 20% up on last week, which sounds good, but it's still considerably lower than a this time last year.

Fatlossplanner

7:45 am on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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I searched for a search term in my niche... I can see Google showing Facebook pages... This surely has to be a bug or something... Content sites are buried and instead pinterest and Facebook pages show up.. It doesnt show as number one but it still shows in 2 page... This is bizarre...

martinibuster

7:53 am on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Thanks for your post, HereWeGo123. Great observations!

HereWeGo123

2:07 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@martinibuster - if I may ask, what is your stance on disavowing thousands of spammy and possible negative seo links?

broccoli

2:17 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@HereWeGo123 IMHO don’t do it. There’s virtually zero evidence that it makes a difference, and it likely just teaches Google’s machine learning algorithms that your links are bad. Even Marie Haynes says it’s rare anyone should ever disavow. Google is likely already ignoring the links, and if they aren’t, you’ll lose the link juice from them by disavowing.

Fatlossplanner

2:37 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Does anyone in this thread still hopes the ranking will be restored?

mirrornl

3:41 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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hope yes, but it won't, it is quite steady since the start imo

martinibuster

4:31 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@martinibuster - if I may ask, what is your stance on disavowing thousands of spammy and possible negative seo links?


Some SEOs seem to encourage business owners to believe that Googlers recommend disavowing backlinks. What I see happening is that they selectively quote what Google's John Mueller has said to make it appear that he's encouraging the use of the tool.

Google has been consistent that there is no need to use it. The fact is that Google has consistently discouraged the use of the disavow tool.

John Muller recently stated that the Google purposely hid the tool in GSC and purposely made it hard to find it because they don't want people to use it. The reason is because Google can already find and not count what John Mueller has called, "kruft" links, i.e. all the low quality links every site acquires.

If you know how the link graph is created and link relationships are mapped, then you will know that the latest link ranking algorithms easily discount and remove those links from the equation. Easily.

I've recently written two articles about it:

Google's John Mueller on How to Use Disavow Tool - Two More Times
https://www.searchenginejournal.com/googles-disavow-tool/292187/

Google Discourages Use of Disavow Tool. Unless You Know the Bad Links
https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-disavow-tool/289871/

Good luck!
;)

Roger Montti

JS_Harris

6:42 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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I really don't think the March 12th core update had anything to do with backlinks. I don't chase or ask for or build backlinks in any way besides offering good content and my site was one of the ones who were rewarded(sorta, more blow). My backlink profile has fewer links than the avg site but they are all well earned and given naturally over the past 15 years.

Some hard data

Google search console is now reflecting site changes up thru March 15th and I can clearly see a near doubling in total impressions to my site. I do NOT, however, see an equivalent increase in clicks from search because the number of total clicks remained the same and the overall CTR is thus much lower.

A quick check of many of the top pages now show that my pages are appearing for many more keywords but that the ranking of those pages, for those keywords, is not high enough to generate more traffic. Impressions doubled, clicks stayed the same, the result is a CTR down by 50%.

I was debating trying to improve the rank of my pages for these mostly 20-40 ranked keywords but in looking at them, at their intent, most of them would be better off as new content. I'm not sure it would pay off to try and change titles at all to convey that people looking for those keywords would be satisfied.

SO, with only 3 days of data in my search console to go by, it looks like Google now finds my site valuable for many more keywords than it did prior to the core update but I'm not quite benefiting because they rank a little lower. My conclusion = "Thanks Google, I now know what content you'd appreciate on my domain, I'll get on it".

edit: In case this helps, my site does not sell widgets, it's an evergreen informational type site that answers a lot of widget related questions and troubleshooting. It is, as of March 12th, now seeing a lot of impressions for buying intent queries as well as the primary keyword. ie: widget. The site does well for widget collecting or widget repairs but the competition for "widget" is primarily eccomerce dominated which I've never tried to compete with.

[edited by: JS_Harris at 7:08 pm (utc) on Mar 17, 2019]

Fatlossplanner

6:58 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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Only hope for me now is traffic from other sources.. Luckily I had planned for other sources well in advance as I always knew Google has this tendency to surprise once in every 2 or 3 years... My site has still not recovered I guess I need to plan something else for my site now..

HereWeGo123

7:15 pm on Mar 17, 2019 (gmt 0)

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@broccoli- thanks for that. Appreciate the feedback.

@martinibuster- thanks for your insight and explanation on disavowing links as well. Makes total sense. As helpful as Google’s stance on disavowing is - it may raise up more questions. For instance, if a site is getting what they believe to be genuine links from editors of reputable sites because they’re being quoted in various subject matter and as a credit get a link back to their homepage. (e.g. John Doe, a personal fitness writer at example.com, states that, staying hydrated is the single most important thing while working out...) and all of is useful and contextual to the subject matter. In fact, John Doe is getting used as an export/source. Sure, it wasn’t paid for, but it did require efforts from the author of website to reach out to the editor and respond to the author of the website’s inquiry pertaining to the story they will be writing (HARO). Does that seem unatural? And then there’s the question about links pointing back to homepage in forms of bylines. Again, unpaid for did require an effort on the authors part to reach out to the website editor and coordinate a story for him to write in order to get their byline. Thanks!
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