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Google Ranking of Quality New Page on a New Website

         

toy2014net

10:27 am on Jun 28, 2017 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Hi,

I am wondering what your experience here is:

If you have a 'brand new' domain + website, and the only page the website has currently is a quality review inner page.

Now this page has better content then all your competitors (= also review pages) that already rank for keyword X on the 1st page of Google. Also taking into fact that each of those competitors who rank for keyword X have 0 back links pointing to their review!

My questions are:

1.) I am able to outrank them with a brand new domain website, which has only one review page at the moment, and 0 back links, BUT has much better content than my competitors on the 1st page for keyword X?

2.) If NO, building several back links will do the job in my case?


Thanks,
Toy

aristotle

2:15 pm on Jun 28, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



At this stage you should be working on your site and not worrying about google rankings or building backlinks.

frankleeceo

2:21 pm on Jun 28, 2017 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



1. Yes it is possible with time. But depends on the competition and how strong they are, it can take a long long time. "better" is in the beholder's eye too. I have pages that are definitely better than the competitor(s), but is still being outranked after 1 year. I am patient however. Pages are basically ranked individually and by site. A completely new domain without supporting other parts is both an advantage and disadvantage. Advantage is that you have a much easier time optimizing it without the bloat. The disadvantage is that you are without the "supportive bloat" that your competitors might otherwise have.

However, at best you should be able to rank for a very specific long tail keyword (combination of 3+ words), at least in the beginning. But that will bring very little speck of traffic. Traffic comes in step waves for good sites (higher steps), most of the time naturally without too much interference.

2. Building backlinks can speed up the process, but being too fast, rash or too unnatural about it can bring doom. If you are not churn and burn, I would do it slowly, very very slowly.

My personal style had been completing the website as much as I could, that process usually take time by itself, by the time I feel it's "ready", it generally has a little organic traffic from #1 I mentioned. I usually joke with my self with this stage that all work is being done for free. Pennies for hours of work. If a site fails, then the time and effort during this time is just straight into the trash. I have had plenty of fails thousands of hours into the drain. But I survive with the ones that worked out.

After the site is fully established I'll make a judgment call on whether or not to bring more links to it to increase its visibility. If the site fails to stand on its own, then I just leave it and move on. I also have sites that somehow gained visibility after 6 months ~ 1 year or so of being dead. Then I jumped back into it to make it work better. This business is a lot of...I guess it all depends...who knows...etc. But bottom line is that it centers around the loyal user base at the core. (After you get the technical stuff out of the way that is). Technical stuff is the building block. You cannot build a safe & pretty house without solid foundations.

This is a slow process that takes weeks and months out. But I am enjoying my work along the way. This is my final style that I have settled, for right now ;p

martinibuster

5:30 pm on Jun 28, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



A week in the gym won't help you compete in the Olympics. A little site can't compete either. You might get a temporary bump but that'll disappear.

Be realistic. Choose appropriate milestones and work your way up.

Your site is not special, no matter how much you think it is.

Bad news
You are at rock bottom.

Good news
At least you're not beneath the rocks.

Work. Nothing is free. Google is not your mom.
Now claw your way up inch by inch just like everyone else.

tangor

3:30 am on Jun 29, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Displacing a site that's on page one is not easy, particularly these days when half of those are g properties. Before your site can get there there's about a zillion others already in waiting. This does not mean you don't try, but it does mean it will take WORK. Playing games with ONE page is putting all eggs in one basket. Playing with a site with many pages makes the possibility of one or some ranking that much better.

One trick ponies can only do one trick. Have a herd with different tricks and go from there.

keyplyr

4:36 am on Jun 29, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Hi toy2014net and welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]

Lot's of great useful infomation here in the forums. Spend some time reading through the discussions and participate.

MrSavage

3:06 pm on Jun 29, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Should I candy coat it? Seems like a "Shark Tank" situation where some want to soften the blow to encourage you to dream the dream. New site these days? Strongly consider the long term prospects of this. How you're monetizing. The goals. How much traffic you want and will you make any money from it. I personally don't see very many scenarios where the investment of time and effort makes it worthwhile if you have any plan of making an income off your site. Sorry, the ideal that better content means you will rank has zero place in reality. A giant website that covers A-Z, but happens to have a 50 word article on your topic will outrank you all day long. If you are in an area where nobody cares so much, then perhaps you can gain something, however that will quickly disappear the instant your area can be covered by a giant website that dedicated .00000001% of their content on. If you want to pay for services in order to gain traffic? Lots of people want you to believe that it's a wise investment. Believe what you want. If you can't rely on Bing for what you want, then reconsider goals on this. You already put time in creating the better content. It means nothing though. It sounds neat to say the best stuff rises but it's a farce of all farces.

FNIvan1243

3:51 pm on Jun 29, 2017 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Start again, you must do everything again,
With a new domain, Google don't know who are you, you must show who you are, Is your web a spam web, ....
Good News: you have nothing to lose :))

JS_Harris

3:44 pm on Jul 8, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Don't forget you're dealing with two different beasts here.

#1 - Google's algo which may or may not rank your new stuff well

#2 - If flagged by the algo as being deserving of top ranking then exepct a human rater to take a look first

The situation you describe in your opening post will likely crash and burn on #2, if you get past #1 which is no easy task without any history. Your niche itself and the query competitiveness itself decides just how big a challenge you are actually facing. Human raters look at the target page but also the overall site, the index page etc.

NickMNS

5:45 pm on Jul 8, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



#2 - If flagged by the algo as being deserving of top ranking then exepct a human rater to take a look first

@JS_Harris there is no basis for this. Google does not use Human raters for ranking sites in the serps.
Human raters are only ever used to for testing of the performance of algorithms to ensure that they produce the desired outcome. This has nothing to do with ranking.

I am currently facing a similar situation as the OP. Albeit I have far more content than 1 page and I am continuously adding and updating content.

Given what has been said above, yes it is a shark tank situation, but what are some strategies that can take a website from being plankton and living at the bottom of SERPs to growing the site into a fish that can occasionally swim to the top and get a few users?

Will a targeted investment in advertising deliver ROI? My site is an information site monetized through AdSense, so paying for traffic can only pay-off if the visitors that click through the ads return frequently and/or help boost ranking and traffic by linking and sharing.

I have been trying with social media, mostly twitter but with limited followers there again you face the same challenge as growing the website. In which case I rather focus my effort on growing my own site as opposed to creating content for FB, Twitter and others to monetize.

What is the best way to leverage other site or sites that you own (unrelated) to help with the initial boost?

BTW: I realize that I am hijacking this thread but it seems that the OP has lost interest.
@ MrSavage
Should I candy coat it?

Maybe you should have :0)

JS_Harris

10:43 pm on Jul 8, 2017 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



@JS_Harris there is no basis for this. Google does not use Human raters for ranking sites in the serps.


Basis: top ranked pages are indeed evaluated by a human, I'm not sure why you'd think they aren't, especially on some of the most searched for terms. I'm aware of the blind quality testing human raters do that does NOT influence individual rankings and only helps engineers better tweak the algo, I am not refering to those. I am referring to the 10,000+ strong team of outsourced individuals that do evaluate about 60 websites per hour each on average, they tend to be most busy immediately after an update to clean up residual spam that sneaks up.

Personal experience: Some years ago I published a new site that was immediately top ranked, then along came a human who snipped my ability to rank for a specific keyword, without informing me. This wasn't a penalty, my site was new and probably didn't deserve to rank tops in serps but the algo said it did. At the time Google actually showed you the title and description of any page which had received sitelink status. Lo and behold my titles all looked mighty funny in those reports with that one word snipped from all titles and descriptions!

I was in touch with Google at the time and they confirmed my suspicion, that a human had snipped my ability to rank for that specific 1 word term, but within two weeks that block was removed and, mysteriously, I was no longer able to see sitelink titles and descriptions in my dashboard anymore. I've had other experiences that strongly support that a human has been involved in a ranking change(improvement), but so have you! A couple of years ago, when Matt was still on the spam team and actually working at Google, not on extended holiday, Google had a particularly rough update which left obvious spam in front of foremely long standing top ranked sites.

Various widely reposted tweets confirmed that HUMANS were hard at work cleaning up any spam that had snuck into the top spots. They can, and do, do this. The human rater handbook itself suggests that every site has a history that can be looked up to see previous ratings, this is used by the spam team.... anyway, people tend to ignore what they see and stay strong with what they've been told officially so I won't argue with you further but I have had first hand experiences over nearly two decades now that have repeatedly confirmed what I'm saying.

note: don't bother trying to find and bribe a rater, they perform tasks they are assigned and cannot visit your site specifically on purpose. If you wish, however, you can find signs that this mini-army of humans is indeed visiting pages and taking names - [theguardian.com...]

edit: You'll notice the contradictions even in that article I just linked. The humans were flagging sites for removal yet were not able to actually change rankings. That screams semantics because the flagged sites are all ultimately removed, manually, as has been reported time and time again via the spam team. I understand Google's need to have an algo do ALL the heavy lifting but the fact is that when the algo says THIS is a top ranked site they can't just blindly make that happen, and they don't for the top spots of the most queried terms, period.

To give you a visual, I'm just not going to argue on this but want to be clear.
- Algo: found a top ranked worthy page! No history, requires review, flagged and given lower initial ranking
- Human: review of top rank worthy page, eventually. Algo confirmed, this page/site rocks... top rankings approved.
- Human: review of another top ranked worthy page. Algo denied, this is spam.
- Algo: re-evaluation of these pages performed, human input included in evaluation, actual ranking adjusted accordingly.

So technically the human rater did not manually change a page's ranking but it was indeed a human rater that unlocked the uper ranking potential of said page. Google's not lying, but human evaluaters, over 10,000 strong, spend all day doing a lot of manual reviews and creating a lot of website history for the algo(and for the engineers).

browndog

2:30 am on Jul 9, 2017 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I don't think so because it seems Google give preference to larger/media type sites. I wrote an article which is 10 years old, it is updated when new news/facts come out, it has been paraphrased to the hilt and those sites manage to outrank mine, despite the extensive/original content. I"m not saying this because I'm bitter (although I am a little), I just think that the weight is always skewed towards mainstream sites. So, you could get an oncologist write a detailed article on X carcinoma on his blog, but Huffington Post and WebMD would still likely outrank him, even if their content wasn't nearly as good.