Outranked by scraped content - algorithmic penalty or something else?

[alexod]

What does it mean ?

I'm trying to search in google with our page content - 7-8 words phrase , and we are the last result. First 4 results are from the website which was registered in 2016 (only first page is online, other pages responding 404, but google still keep this pages in his index) and that 1st page have this content starting jan 2017 (according to Archive.org). We have that content starting 2016 march -june (according to Archive.org).

4th position is from SEO company who had personal Injury page on their website (?) - 404 page now. And only the 5th position is the site with original content.

So my question is - what this mean ? Does it mean that website with "original content" is under any kind of algorithmic penalty ? Why google can't figure out which one is the original content?

P.s. We have the same issue with other our pages - if somebody else clone this content and if even the age of that domain registration is 2017, on SERP page they are listed higher that we.

thanks

[not2easy]

If you can see your content on their site, do you also see any updates or changes when you update your own content? I ask because that can tell you whether they have scraped your content or whether they are showing your site in a frame. It is easy to fix the framing problem, less easy to force removal - depending on the location and co-operation of their host.

[alexod]

not2easy,

I don't mean that other website are framing our content (yes there are fake websites which grab whole pages, but most of them were banned by google in sept 2016). Our website was on the top during 3-4 months in 2016 and that was a time when other companies tried to copy paste content from our pages. Most of them took 2-5 paragraphs, changed company names and use on the websites.

We didn't change content during last year, yes of course some pages get new paragraphs, but most of the content didn't changed.

My QUESTION was - If other websites have higher position in google search (using content from your website) does it mean that you have any algorithmic penalty ?

1. If any website use your content (2-3 paragraphs copy pasted from your site), why google don't figure out which website use this content first and rank that fresh site higher ? (difference >1 year)

2. Why google shows on SERP page results from other websites, which response 404, and even there isnt' cached version or that pages. and one more time they are listed higher then original content website.

P.s. Off course i'll try to take down this content from their sites, but my question is another.

[not2easy]

If they copy a paragraph or two, they can claim fair use, even without attribution. Not ethical, but common.

If your question was in relation to your position in the results, I can only say that when I search for "quoted text" for exact matches, the newest source is on top, the oldest on the last position so it looks like Google recognizes your site as the oldest source. I do not know if that is some "Rule", but I've seen it frequently enough to not be surprised by it. The positions for exact match do not necessarily bear any relation to their position in search results.

[alexod]

So, your answer - if you site for specific phrase query is in the bottom position on SERP it means that Google recognizes your site as the oldest source ?
BTW it's not quoted text

[not2easy]

I apologize if I'm misunderstanding your question. I understood

I'm trying to search in google with our page content - 7-8 words phrase

to mean that you searched Google using some text from your site and it gave you a list of results.

Whether within quotes or not, a search for a phrase rather than a 'thing' looks for the best match for that phrase. Within quotes it is limited to only exact match results.

[goodroi]

It doesn't matter if it is an algorithmic penalty, manual penalty, filter or something else. You have ranking problems and the result is the same ... you are losing traffic to your site.

Here are some steps to help you get aimed in the right direction
#1 - Make sure all content on your site is unique & valuable
#2 - Use DMCA to defend your content
#3 - Make sure your site is technically strong (page speed, crawling, mobile, etc)
#4 - Work on developing quality dofollow relevant text backlinks.

Personal injury lawyer rankings tend to be more competitive so there is less room for mistakes. You might want to bring in someone that can help you. Good luck with your site.

PS Based on my experience I'm guessing this is more about weak ranking signals and not an actual penalty but I haven't reviewed your site so I could be wrong.

[jambam]

Dmca does not help with stolen duplicate content. Sites still rank in the search results they just are hidden from view only and still counted by the algos. Even a 1 character change in the url can get a site ranking in its exact same position again if it has been hidden via dmca.

[goodroi]

DMCA can be used in different ways (search engine, hosting company, etc). Yes, there are ways people can try to circumvent DMCA but I think it incorrect to state that DMCA does not help. Also remember this situation is about lawyer websites. I would hope that the lawyers could figure out the legal ramifications of someone stealing their content without our help.

[alexod]

Thanks for your responses.

It doesn't matter if it is an algorithmic penalty, manual penalty, filter or something else. You have ranking problems and the result is the same ... you are losing traffic to your site.

Agree, but unfortunately i can't figure out any real problem which can cause such problems.
1. Make sure all content on your site is unique & valuable -> It was unique, now that content are using a lot of firms
2. Use DMCA to defend your content - Here is the message that i got today morning - "*** company has no right to apply sanctions to the domain name on the basis of third parties claims. Domain registrant independently carries out domain management and is solely responsible for the content posted on its resource. "
3. Make sure your site is technically strong (page speed, crawling, mobile, etc) - there isn't technical problems ... site speed isn't perfect (mobile ~60, desktop >70), but i guess this numbers can't be the problem of such drop.
4. Work on developing quality dofollow relevant text backlinks. - we start that process, but it takes long time

[not2easy]

This:

..has no right to apply sanctions to the domain name...

sounds like it did not come from their host but from their registrar. If you wish to use DMCA, you would need to follow the law's requirements. Most cases don't require a lawyer, but they do require accurate information in filing. Even wikipedia offers some guidelines on what information needs to be submitted, to whom and with what kind of evidence.

The forums are not a source for legal advice, but we do share our own experiences. I would spend some time making sure that it is done right if you want it to work for you.