A sad time! Closing websites

[seoskunk]

Today I will close two online entities due to my seo failure. To be honest I have failed more times than I succeeded and the whole thing now is getting me down now. One site I drove no links to but very safe links. Both were visually pleasing sites. Unless I can work out where I am going wrong I see no future in this industry

[bwnbwn]

Sorry to hear that seoskunk the web world is getting to be a tougher place to make a living. I am wondering why you are taking them down. Is it the hosing cost because leaving them up will help with aging and you never know when that good link or links might just come.

[Shepherd]

I'm not going to kick you while you're down Skunk but I would like to hear more about these entities (within forum TOS boundaries).

What was the goal of these entities?

How did you determine failure?

[aristotle]

i agree with bwnbwn.

Domain registration and site hosting costs are amazingly cheap, at least on shared hosting. You can stop working on the sites, but still leave them up. Google's algorithm changes frequently with regard to the importance of various signals, and at some point in the future the sites could start getting traffic again. I also believe that eventually Google might start showing more respect for older sites that have stood the test of time, or should anyway.

[Marshall]

I also believe that eventually Google might start showing more respect for older sites that have stood the test of time, or should anyway.

Google shows "respect" to sites that pay the most in advertising, or have you not noticed. I have quality sites that have been in existence for up to 16 years and I have slowly watched them move further and further down the SERP's while sites with big ad budgets move up. Coincidence? I do not think so.

Marshall

[aristotle]

Marshall -- I agree that Google doesn't show much respect for older sites now, but only said that "eventually" they "might" or "should". One of the characteristics of low quality and spammy sites is that they usually don't last very long. In any case, I personally have respect for old sites, and doubt that I'm the only person who does.

[mrengine]

Google shows "respect" to sites that pay the most in advertising, or have you not noticed.

I'm in Adwords and have great organic positions. Google traffic is just not converting at all - paid or organic. It's very troublesome.

seoskunk, I wish you the best. Sometimes taking down a website or two will remove them from the frustration equation and allow people to focus more on the site(s) that matter the most.

[robzilla]

Google shows "respect" to sites that pay the most in advertising, or have you not noticed.

I pay zip in advertising and do very well in the SERPs, so there goes that theory.

[MrSavage]

My friend OP, I am joining you in closing down websites. More than that, I'm essentially terminating a number of idea/projects that I have been planning. Is this all bad? Not really. There is a cleansing. A sense of freedom you could say. I'm also releasing domains that I've held onto that at some point had perceived value. If you can't monetize, then it changes everything. I think your feelings about SEO and rankings and "organic" traffic are legit. Be happy that you at least are realistic in knowing the game has changed.

[buckworks]

"respect" to sites that pay the most in advertising

My theory: There's no direct relationship between ad spend and organic ranking, but sites that promote actively are more likely to gain organic links "from the wild" than sites that just wait passively.

Over time, Google will react positively to the extra links and stronger web presence which are a happy side effect of ad spend.

[Shepherd]

Google shows "respect" to sites that pay the most in advertising

No one in our niche spends more on adwords than we do and we do not get any preferential treatment in the organic rankings for our niche. Wish we did.

[engine]

Sorry to hear that seoskunk.

Why not consider selling the site, instead of closing it?

I closed a small site that was doing nothing, and was going nowhere without making some effort in marketing the site. It was built over 18 years ago, and had been neglected. It used to rank well, and did get some reasonable traffic, but the decline was slow and almost unoticed. I suspect it looks a little old fasioned for most surfers, and it's certinly not mobile friendly. Not worth selling.
I don't think anyone will miss it, and that, for me, is a key point. If I felt it was providing value to the users it'd be worth keeping going.

[londrum]

i've actually just re-opened a site i mothballed four years ago because i got bored of it, and couldn't be bothered to keep working on it.
i kept the domain name and had all the files on CD, so i was able to get it back up and running within a day. it's been two weeks so far and google have indexed about half the pages and still seem to be giving weight to all my old backlinks. so it seems that old sites never truly die

so i reckon you should close it down if it's not making you happy anymore, but don't chuck the whole lot away -- keep it on CD -- keep the domain too.
and maybe you'll think differently in a few years

[fathom]

Not to add insult to injury, but not sure what a self created "very safe link" is unless that what Google suggests is an unnatural link. Sure doesn't sound like a natural one.

Orchestrating your own links seems like the problem, not the solution.

Tossing in the towel, isn't the worse thing... I re-invented my business 5 times through hard fought lessons learned, as SEO WISDOM generally only comes from failure.

Learning to fail quickly was one of the hardest lessons.

[seoskunk]

Thanks for all your reply's. The sites are closed but I took a backup. Its difficult to know where to go from here, I can't follow the same path again and again. Yet the web is all i know now. What I can't afford to do now is invest in another internet project that will fall flat on its face. Perhaps on reflection it would have been better if I had never gone online at all. To have a taste of success and then it taken away is worse than having nothing at all.

[dipper]

Losing a business is like losing a loved one - it makes you feel physically ill.

There is light at the end of the tunnel - by making mistakes, you learn. No one ever learned by always being correct. You are not alone in making mistakes. Take some time off, rejuvenate mentally, and move forward.

Good luck!

[tangor]

I have hoisted a glass, seoskunk. Tears have been wept for the dearly departed.

Now change your name to neoskunk and get back in the saddle. Create a website on something you truly know and love. That is the heart part (not hard part). Have fun.

If it also has a chance to monetize any way OTHER than ads-reliance then you have a job you can love and never "work" a day again in your life.

The web is just a place. A place where anything can happen. All you need to bring to it is yourself, your love of life and a "thing" you love (subject, store, mfg, etc) and things can happen.

But if you do it just for adsense alone like all the (rephrase that "many!") other Tom Dick and Harry's, you will be doomed.

Still, the glass has been raised for the dearly departed.

Dang it, put a smile on your face that you were not only able to recognize when to get out you had the strength to shoot your own dog to put it out of its misery. That is being a man (or woman!) of character.

[fathom]

What I can't afford to do now is invest in another internet project that will fall flat on its face.

As tangor said, (and you are just starting to realize) investing in what you love puts you on a completely different level. The best SEOs are those optimizing their PASSIONS!

The worse SEOs are the same people merely chasing the money.

[Kratos]

@seoskunk I'm sorry to hear that, but you're doing one good thing and that is being here and interacting with people. There are some extremely knowledgeable people here from whom to learn from their experience. Most SEOs go to other spammy/scammy forums and never bother to check this forum (where most people know more than just clicking a button on GSA SER). Although I'm pretty sure I've seen you at Warrior Forum correct?

I'm not to kick you when you're down either but some of the advice I've read from you was not "very" good to put it in a nice way. Stuff like the sandbox myth is something experienced SEOs know is crappola (even I know it and I'm not an SEO). I don't know man, I would not give up just yet. From what I read from your posts you need to spend more time testing stuff, but that means spending a good amount of money. As said I ain't even an SEO and I easily spent over 5k to 10k bucks already as far as 2015 goes on learning from our own tests. I don't even track how much money we spend on testing -although I know it's on budget- because what we learn is invaluable so I'd rather thrown a couple of hundred bucks on a test than give up. That don't mean to throw very expensive poop at a very expensive wall to see what sticks, but you ultimately learn to tell fast whether throwing an extra 300-500 bucks to a project is worth it or not.

I'm sure you will ultimately succeed if you don't give up. Many of you posts are on point. It's just that some of the advice I've read from you would be easily discredited (by yourself) by doing some more testing -which again costs money. Google ain't going to tell us anything other than create awesome content (and very quietly also tell us to acquire great backlinks if you read Matt Cutts circa 2009).

You're already ahead of the curve so don't give up just yet.

[Planet13]

Over time, Google will react positively to the extra links and stronger web presence which are a happy side effect of ad spend.

+1

Also, sites hat are LIKELY to have a continuous, long-term ad spend are the sites with a distinct, clearly articulated value proposition.

Hence, those sites that have a good business model / strong UVP are more likely to do well in organic SERPS.

[Planet13]

@ seoskunk

To be honest I have failed more times than I succeeded and the whole thing now is getting me down now.

Babe Ruth hit 714 Home Runs.
He struck out 1,330 times.

And Reggie Jackson struck out more times (2,597) than he had total hits (2,584), But he was still nicknamed Mister October for his ability to deliver in the clutch.

Just something to think about.

(Sorry for those not familiar with the sport of baseball.)

[fathom]

You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take.

A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.

-- THE GREAT ONE!

[samwest]

I feel your pain seoskunk, and sure everyone has to hope for the best, and that's good, but this medium is being destroyed. Since the 2010 algo updates, I have yet to experience a single "good" move. I tweak my site daily. I practice all white hat techniques and tried to follow the "rules". The problem is that the SERPS have become more of a casino than a medium of pure, natural opportunity. When greed is involved, nobody (except the rich guys at the top) will win.
I still hope for the "blind squirrel to find a nut" scenario to magically happen, but I'm not holding my breath. I've closed several sites so far and I'm back to job hunting...it sure was a good run though. I still suspect this ain't all Google. Something else is in play out there.

[Juniya]

I feel your pain, I have been doing this webmaster business since I was about 7 or 8 and it's been my way of living since. Made enough to buy a house, car etc but times have for sure gotten much, much tougher.

I recently had to close about 11-13 sites last year and I thought my entire business was over until I figured out how to use my time wisely, weird thing to say but it made a huge difference for me. Focus on the sites that you KNOW will make you money if you do things right. Maybe you can start there, close the sites that must be closed but keep the one that you have some positive wonder/doubt about.

[ken_b]

Juniya; Nice first post. Welcome to the forum.

[Juniya]

:D Thanks a lot @Ken_B!

[samwest]

I have talked to a friend and former participant in these forums who lives in the UK and he has now informed me that he too has closed his formerly thriving online business. For a long time he was able to coexist just fine with the big brand sites, but the mysterious "traffic shaping" and the recent "conversion killer" changes have placed the final nail in the coffin for his networking parts business.

Meanwhile, the rich get astronomically richer while tens of thousands of small business have to be closed, homes lost, marriages broken, children left hungry. This attack on small business is beyond atrocious.

[fathom]

@samwest I don't buy your premise.

Maybe the rich get richer because they don't try to be a jack-of-all-trades, while the DIYer, for better or worse, might believe that genuine expertise isn't required in any part of running a successful business. Part of being successful implies you are skilled in risk management or you hired someone to do that for you.

There is a reason why small businesses scale up to 500 employees. INTERNAL EXPERTISE is substantially cheaper than 3rd party consultants. But if you have neither, you are doom to fail or at least struggle "FOREVER!"

[samwest]

^ You seem to buy it because at 500 employees, we're not talking "small business" anymore. Mom & Pop shops should be able to survive just fine, we did for over 10 years until the system became a money game. But I guess that's just capitalism. Move in with a briefcase of VC cash and you own it all. I'm not arguing that people make a difference, but again, on the web it's about the content, not the company (or used to be). When I see one page from a big brand showing up for thousands of unrelated terms, and then hundreds of good, compelling content pages from a M&P on page 10, then we have a problem that has nothing to do with internal expertise. It has to do with cash. You're argument works better in a brick and mortar environment.

[Leosghost]

Maybe the rich get richer because they don't try to be a jack-of-all-trades,

So why does Amazon ( "jack of all trades" ) selling a "made in China" mass produced widget, outrank ( in SERPs ), so many assorted specialist "boutiques" ( Mom and Pops ), who are making a "custom" or "bespoke" or "high quality" widget, for the same type of item ?

Especially when Amazon( or the merchants who have "shops" on it ) is / are not the cheapest supplier of the widget in question..

It is all about who you know ( share some of the same VCs), not what you know..It was always that way offline..it has now become that way online, for the vast majority of businesses..anyone who thinks that is not the case, has never been a member ( I am ) of some of the "invitation only" "business" clubs..

Any of us here at WebmasterWorld are far more likely to give a link to someone else from here, with whom we "get on well", than with someone that we "don't get on well with", or someone approaching us for a link out of the blue away from here..and many "deals" are done via sticky mail, and no doubt via pubcon.."networking" is not only about wires and computers, and VCs "network" more than most..that is why there are "VC groups" and many VCs are members of more than one "VC group"..Same thing happens with directors of large companies.."one looks after ones friends"..;)

Anyone who does not know that, does not know as much about business, online or offline, as they think that they do..

[edited by: Leosghost at 3:29 pm (utc) on Oct 11, 2015]