Panda and Penguin NOT In Real Time

[aakk9999]

A new article from Barry Schwartz has cleared the confusion on whether Penguin and Panda are run in the real time or not. Here is the link to the article:

Google: Panda & Penguin Are In Real Time But Still Require Manual Data Updates
12th of May 2015
https://www.seroundtable.com/google-panda-penguin-real-time-data-manual-20283.html [seroundtable.com]

Having read the article, the TL;DR is that Panda and Penguin are NOT in real time.

The fact that Google collects the data in real time is neither here nor there. But the ranking update process (re-calculation) based on the data collected is apparently initiated manually.

All this together says that Panda and Penquin are not happening real time and that unless the update process has been initiated and run, there will be no changes in ranking.

Which is not the same as what the real-time would be: "I changed the page, the page has been recrawled, site re-weighted and the ranking adjusted" ( = real time).

The recent Barry's post sucessfully cleared the confusion we discussed in this thread from March:
Google Panda - Instant Real Time (Or Perhaps Not) ? [webmasterworld.com]

Thank you Barry!

[masterjoe]

I dont understand what you're not understanding Rob -- he's simply saying that between each refresh there is a window to spam and do whatever you want til it gets slapped again. I've resorted to aging several domains so once my sites get hit, I'll have new ones ready to start banking. Google brought this on themselves.

[fathom]

@ Rob Bank never been devalued by PENGUIN myself and I don't develop PBN like most do with expired domains so yes this seem quite safe.

My intelligence on PENGUIN comes from seeing both sides of the equation. Not just the devaluation of link buyers due to having paid linked but also from link sellers. I own my own supply and have supplied many others in the past all of which fell to PENGUIN 1, 2, or 3... But not me.

I agree that PENGUIN devalues the masses on reRUN which also takes older less sophisticated ways to link scheme that are devalued before the launch of the new refresh.

I disagree that you have a length of time to webspam Google that is equal to the time between refreshes... It might seem that way since PENGUIN isn't that granular... But it only seems that way.

[masterjoe]

^ Agreed. I had bad links but wasn't affected until the refresh last year. If I had known what I know now, I would not have done it in the first place even though there were much worse results in the serps before I even tried. IMO, I think they should create an algorithm to balance Panda and Penguin to determine high quality content and value it more over the links it has.

For example - you can have a high quality site with a very informative article... but you won't rank jack unless it has links. And if you have the wrong links, you'll get designated to the back pages where nobody goes anyway.

If you have crap content, with high quality links (which often companies like Forbes with their ridiculous ad pages before you even get to the content), should be lowered on the serps). The way it's set up now makes no sense, and all we have is John Mueller who sounds like he's guessing 90% of his answers about everything. He said Penguin was going to have a more regular refresh, but it's been about 6 months since the last one and we still have no news. This was enough time for me to clean up the site, rewrite the content onto a new domain and get it to rank even higher than my original. I know they are probably going to slap it with another algo or keep it below Amazon, but it is ranking and banking for now.

[Rob_Banks]

@fathom,

Honestly, from time to time, I run across some soon to expire domains that I start getting worked up over. But, I usually decide not to pull the trigger. I've done PBNs both with expired redirects and "natural" links, I'm not a huge fan of PBNs in general due to the workload of producing reasonable content.

My intelligence on PENGUIN comes from seeing both sides of the equation

That's kind of my issue. When you make interpretations based on your experience it is biased by your exposure. I can make a perfectly coded site with nothing but actual natural links. If I say Penguin doesn't exist because my "perfect" site wasn't impacted, is that valid intelligence and interpretation?

Personally, I think penguin and panda get blamed for a lot of the link deconstruction that has been going on for the last few years. Yeah, that site two links away that had some web influence dropped the link that led to you. Hard to see and measure, but the impact is there.

[fathom]

you can have a high quality site with a very informative article... but you won't rank jack unless it has links. And if you have the wrong links, you'll get designated to the back pages where nobody goes anyway.

You have your signals a little screw balled here.

What is a "very informative article"? Is that like a thousand other very informative articles that regurgitate the same facts everyone else has?

Matt Cutts did an interview 3 years ago on this very informative topic [stonetemple.com...]

A high quality site would have only expert articles that tend to attract natural links. If your very informative articles cannot attract links from the greater public which have readerships that desire following expertise then you have a low quality website with pages no one wants to link to because they offer nothing new, just the same ordinary non-expert crap most other very informative websites have.

That obviously very difficult to compete with but that's the standard for top ranks.

Google continues to have a link obsession (because the signals tied to expertly crafted content) you can't easily fake expertise by adding non-expert articles and pretending those will do since they obviously won't attract natural links which forces you to fake your links.

Which get's authority sites in trouble. Link buyers are not the only people having problems link sellers (websites not normally considered as link sellers) [moz.com...] lost reputation can be costly to an authority domains (Matt Cutts comments are quite enlightening near page bottom)

I'm sure the average times all the sites that are waiting to recover (for what all of 7 months) is nothing compared to all the sites that unfairly ranked pushing sites that should have ranked lower... is equally in Googlers' minds.

[fathom]

iPad was dying so had to break post up.

I stopped doing PBN in April 2011 when Google nailed my $500K PBN in March (and I thought I was so smart) I had a second replacement PBN already to go and Google took that out a month later and almost another $500K down the drain… that was a very expensive lesson but I learned a lot from it.

External links in a PENGUIN world must be void of keyword anchors. You can't force anyone to not use keywords but rarely will anyone intentionally use a keyword. But if you were dumb enough to buy a KID you should ask linkers to include the complete domain address from h t t p to the dot.whatever.

So when you get nailed by PENGUIN what allows you to recover somewhat?

If you got rid of your unnatural links you naturally have less links - right?… So why does less links afford better results than more links?

Your recovery is based on the applied value of your internal links which are naturally devalued due to the unnatural signals PENGUIN detected which means every keyword reference you had in your domain was devalued not just the unnatural external links.

The fact that your ranks go up even when you dumped all those unnatural links means you don’t likely need unnatural links at all, you simply got caught up in the hype. You just need better internal architecture.

[masterjoe]

@fathom - regarding your statement about not attracting natural links. No, I create excellent quality content, upwards of 2000 words and generally around 3000-5000, unique, and written in a natural way. In fact, my bounce rate is only 7% and it seems to shock other webmasters. Unfortunately, I deal in a niche which is very personal - think about health problems. Do you think people are just going drop links on facebook and "share" a bunch of stuff they don't want their friends and family to know about? No. And it's also very competitive... there are very few opportunities to build links from completely relevant sites. Other webmasters know the value of a link and either nofollow or leave my domain without linking, or simply don't allow discussion of competitor products.

Amazon takes 2 spots with a 100 word description . Another affiliate site using 301's and a PBN I've discovered is ranking below them, some irrelevant articles, then my site (usually page 2). This is why I believe Penguin and Panda should be far more integrated together than they are now... it just spits out completely different results depending on when either algo was run.

[fathom]

I can't refute anything you say but word count does not imply quality and relevancy well you can get from any topic to any other topic in six steps.

Tree is to leaves is to fall foilage is to season is to seasonal tires is the winter tires is to rubber and back to tree.

A baby site and a shipping is site have more in common than you realize baby bottle & ship in a bottle.

Here's a news flash "click here" is a natural link but what is it related to? It is an action, it is topically related to everything.

[masterjoe]

My point is simply that G should focus more on figuring out how to make their search results relevant by being able to detect quality content, rather than punitive algorithms which make results stale and frustrate everyone. I can safely say that for the small slice of the internet space my website takes up, it is the best resource in my niche yet. However, due to penguin I've given up on it and gone for a lower quality site which only took a fraction of the time yet it ranks above my penalized site in the mean time. I know -- the wheels on the bus go round and round.

We can only hope their promises of a faster refresh are realized and they figure webmasters are getting extremely jaded and garble up their results with greedy giants (much like the "internet marketing" space if anyones been there before).